Poly Agony: The Mistakes, Repair, and Reality of Raising Kids While Open with Candace Sogren
Non-monogamy isn’t just more love. It’s more feelings, more conversations, and sometimes… a lot more processing.
In this episode, I’m sitting down with Candace Sogren, lawyer, former CEO, emotional intelligence facilitator, mom, and author of Poly Agony. She’s been ethically non-monogamous for over 20 years, raising a child in community, building non-traditional family structures, and living this life fully out loud.
And we’re not talking about the cute, Instagram version of polyamory.
We’re talking about the mistakes. The broken agreements. The repair conversations. The parenting realities. And what it actually takes to make this sustainable.
We get into:
→ The most common mistakes couples make when opening
→ Why repair matters more than perfection
→ Raising kids in open relationships without shame
→ Transparency vs. disclosure (especially with children)
→ Introducing partners in healthy, grounded ways
→ The emotional labor of loving more than one person
Candace also shares a powerful story about advocating for non-traditional families after being denied custody of children because of her polyamorous identity.
This episode is for you if you’re opening a relationship, parenting while poly, or just trying to build something that actually fits your heart.
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Music: Composer/Author (CA): Oscar Lindstein
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TRANSCRIPT:
Ellecia: 00:01
Nobody tells you that non-monogamy isn't just more sexy times. It's more feelings, more conversations, and about 10 times more emotional processing. Like so much processing. Group chats, check-ins, agreements, repair talks, calendar Tetris, and occasionally crying on the bathroom floor asking why are there so many feelings? And honestly, that's exactly why today's guest wrote a book called Polyagony. Welcome back to Nope, we're not monogamous. I'm Ellecia Paine, your non-monogamy coach. So today's guest is one of the humans who makes you go, like, Wait, you did what? And your polyamorous? Candace Sogren is a lawyer, an entrepreneur, a former CEO, and a legit financial world powerhouse. And she helped shape the Jobs Act, the law that made crowdfunding legal in the US. She's led um venture-backed startups, served in C-suite roles at global payments companies with like tens of thousands of employees, right? And she's also been ethically non-monogamous for over 20 years. She's a mom. She's uh raising a kid in community, she runs emotional intelligence and somatic healing workshops, and she wrote Polyagony because she got tired of everyone pretending that this life is all conversion and cute Instagram posts. We know better. She's here to talk about the real stuff. The mistakes, the heartbreak, the repair, the parenting, the logistics, the uh the parts that are like, oh wow, this is actually a lot of feelings, right? Basically, these are the parts that don't get talked about enough. I mean, they do here, but not everywhere else. And and I love this conversation because it because it reminds us that non-monogamy isn't just for like one type of person. It's not fringe, it's not chaotic, it's not unserious. It's thoughtful, intentional adults building lives that actually fit them, that actually suit them. So if you ever find yourself wondering, can I have like a real career, a real family, and still design love differently, be ethically non-monogamous, be polyamorous, then this episode's gonna feel really good for you. Enjoy. Okay, so uh Candace, welcome to Nope, we're not monogamous. I'm really excited that you're here. Can you, before we like really get into things, I would love it if you would tell our listeners just a little bit about who you are.
Candace: 02:33
Sure, yeah. So thanks so much for having me, Ellecia. Um, so uh I I am a mom, a wife, a corporate executive, an author, um, a facilitator and trainer of weekend workshops, um, and uh and an advocate uh for normalizing a conversation around non-monogamy.
Ellecia: 02:54
I love it. That's amazing.
Candace: 02:57
So good. Very familiar. Yeah, so I was like, it takes one to know one. So I'm really happy to be talking with you.
Ellecia: 03:04
Uh-huh. Exactly. Exactly. Fantastic. Awesome. Well, um, I since this is nope, we're not monogamous. Let's start with um, what is your uh experience? What's your relationship with non-monogamy?
Candace: 03:21
Great, happy to share that. So um I have been non-monogamous my entire life, uh, but I've been ethically non-monogamous for the last 20 years or so. Um, and so uh for as long as I can remember, I didn't want to be limited to loving one person. I didn't, that made no sense to me. I'm uh I'm I've been a very, very loving, extroverted um uh person since I can remember since I was two, three years old. My mom always said that I would just go up and come back with five or six people, like friends on vacations and things. And so that's just who I've always been. Um, but I've been I've been ethically non-monogamous now for for the last 20 years. Um, and you know, I was a unicorn on the swinger scene for many years. And uh, and then, you know, I was like, oh, why is this so hard? I can't actually like find a committed partner. Um, like, you know, like everyone just like it's either I date couples or I date men who want to lock me down. And like I was just having a really hard time with that. I've always been a biqueer poly woman. And so um, it wasn't until about 11 years ago and when I met my my life partner that I met someone who could like meet me uh and who and who said, okay, let's like let's do this. And he was like, I I'm convinced that Aphrodite is in your bloodline somewhere and you go, you go be you. Um and so I'm I'm very grateful for that. So um I'm very open, I'm very out of the closet. I actually officially came out of the closet after Burning Man this year in September um of 2025. And and uh and I'm like committed to making a bigger conversation around it.
Speaker: 04:52
I love it. Amazing, amazing. And so uh so I imagine that's why you wrote your book.
Speaker 1: 04:59
Yeah. Well, it's it's it's interesting. You know, I I I've this is my second book. I I wrote a book three years ago called Typhoon Honey, the only way out is through. It was an emotional intelligence book about like whatever your greatest challenge is, that's where you have the greatest opportunity for growth. Um, and uh, and then you know, Burning Man was interesting. It was my first time ever going to Burning Man in the fall. I went with a different partner, uh, so so uh another partner, not my not my um husband. And we broke up. Uh we had a it was a very dramatic scene at Burning Man, as many people have, I've learned later. Um and I came out of it and I thought, you know what? No one's talking about the hard stuff. No one's talking about the crunchy stuff, no one's talking about the fuck ups, no one's talking about the mistakes. And like I'm living them and I feel like I'm in this like I abyss. Like I don't, I don't know who else has been through the same problems I've been through. And I was like, this has got to stop. So I started writing polyagony to say, I'm going to ferret out all of the mistakes. I'm gonna put them all in one place. I'm gonna tell them through a hundred people's different stories so that we can all learn what to do about them, how to avoid them or how to fix them when they happen.
Speaker: 06:07
Yes, that's exactly that's that's exactly why I do this podcast. I was like, okay, cool. There's lots of like how-to's out there, there's lots of advice, but like nobody's talking about how they how they got so wise. How they why why are they able to tell me what to do? I was like, I want to know what really happened. Smill the tea people.
unknown: 06:24
Yes.
Speaker 1: 06:26
Exactly. Exactly. And you know, I like I we I joke in the book about poly elders, right? So like it's like, okay, how did you get to be a polyelder? You made a lot of mistakes. Like you made a lot of mistakes. You violated some agreements, you fucked up. And like, and then you've learned how to talk about it and you learn how to repair. And even like, you know, as recently as yesterday, I did a video in one of my one of my groups about like repair. We're all human, we all make mistakes. So, how what does repair look like and how do we do that? So I'm so grateful that you are having this conversation on your podcast because that's that's the whole reason I wrote the book.
Speaker: 06:58
Yes, amazing. Amazing. Well, how did you come up with the title?
Speaker 1: 07:03
So um, I actually have a I call it a polysphere. Um so I I I'm I I'm bicoastal. I live half the year in Boston, half the year in San Diego. And because I'm bicoastal, I have a polycule that's in Boston and a polycule that's in San Diego. And um, and so I after I had my son six years ago, I like lost my mojo. Um I was like, who am I as a sexual being now that I have this alien sucking the life force out of my tent? You know, like so, so I I I called out the bat signal and I was, it was a WhatsApp group, and I was like, help! It was in the middle of COVID. And so I called all my lovers and I was like, please help me find my mojo. I like, I don't know what happened. Um, and I like lost who I am as a sexual being, and that's such a big piece of who I am. So that group uh now has grown to 50 people. So I have a polysphere of 50 people. And these are people who have been friends, lovers, and we it's kind of like a self-help group. And uh, and like we all kind of just like share like what is going on in our worlds or like, you know, like if we need advice, that type of thing. And I went to them and I was like, guys, Bernie Mitton was a mess. And they were like, oh, polyagony, we know it. And it was like a term of art that we've all been using in my polysphere. And I was like, I feel like what this needs to be a book. Um, and so it but essentially anyone who's opened up relationships, and even if you haven't opened up relationships, you know what it means. You know that agony that comes with relating. Um and so, so now it's a term.
Speaker: 08:28
I love it. I remember I I was I was looking at it and I was like, polypoly. Like I was sounding it out, and then I was like, It's like a light bulb, yeah. Totally, totally. Wow. What um gosh, I have so many questions.
Speaker 1: 08:49
And I have so many more questions. I don't I may not have all the answers, but I'll probably have more questions.
Speaker: 08:54
Right, exactly, exactly. Okay, what would you say? Were there any like, you know, you your life experiences, writing the book, getting other people's experiences, were there any like through lines, like like think common the common things that keep coming up?
Speaker 1: 09:13
Yes, there are themes. And so now, so when I wrote Polyagony, it was a 500-page book, and my publisher was like, Kenneth, nobody's gonna buy a 500-page book. And so we actually have turned it into a trilogy. So, uh, so it's Polyagony, the foundation, Polyagony, the expansion, and polyagony the reckoning. So the foundation are all of the mistakes that we make when we first decide to open up. So, one, getting clear on our why. Do we even know why we're doing this? Am I just doing this because my partner's asking me to? Like, is it something I actually want for myself? Uh, uh forming agreements. Like, how do I form agreements? Most couples, when they first start off, don't, and then they make mistakes and then agreements come after. And so, so um, I talk about those fuck-ups and and like how to how to avoid those with understanding your your biggest fears and desires, then going from there into you know, your boundaries and desires, and then going from there into agreements, right? So, so there's that that theme. The second theme is the expansion. So the expansion is when you actually start introducing a third, a fourth, a fifth. And now you've got metamorphos situations you got to deal with. Now you've got, you know, like, are we kitchen table? Are we not? Now are we don't ask, don't tell, like transparency versus disclosure. Like how much information does my partner actually want to know? So you move into all of that stuff. Then there's group dynamics. And so, so like, you know, play parties and like like is that your scene? And if so, there's a whole protocol. I have 40 pages in the book just on play parties and and like group scenarios and like protocols and like etiquette and um and and like how do you manage aftercare and like when you make somebody uncomfortable, how do you fix that and repair it? So there's that. The third theme is the reckoning. And so the reckoning are just all of the mistakes, like the the the violations of agreements, violations of consent, deal breakers around condom usage, for instance. And then ultimately the ending of relationships, conscious uncoupling. How do you do that when you're in a group environment? How do you uncouple with one person without blowing up your polycule? You know, like all of those dynamics. And so the themes are there's a lot of mistakes in opening, there's a lot of mistakes in expanding, and there's a lot of mistakes in in in kind of the unwind.
Speaker: 11:24
Wow.
Speaker 1: 11:25
Wow. Uh sounds like life. Sounds like life. Well, and then there's also things like parenting. Like, where does parenting fit into all of this, right? And so there's a whole section on like polyparenting. How do I talk about this with my kids? Do I talk about this with my kids? What's appropriate to share all of that too?
Speaker: 11:45
So yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. Amazing. Well, do you talk about it with your kids?
Speaker 1: 11:52
I do. So um, as I mentioned, I, you know, I've I've been openly, well, I've been poly for 20 plus years. Um, when I met my husband, we met at something called Intimacy Fest. And so, like, I told him that from the moment I met him, I am a wild horse, I cannot be tamed. Um, and so, so like I was very clear from day one. And so we're not like a lot of couples because we started off this way. Um, and so, like, you know, like we started off with like agreements and like like, you know, there was never like a jealousy FOMO thing for us because we started in this environment. Um, many don't, and many open up at a later point in time. And so we we were lucky, you know, when we had children, when we had my son from the very beginning, I was reading in Pride Parade books and talking about LGBTQP. And like he'd be like, Which letters are you? And I'm like, mommy's a B and a Q and a P, you know? And so, so like we've always had that. We've always had dates, mommy's son dates, and mommy and daddy goes on a date, and mommy's on a date with Katie now. And, you know, like so, like, dates is something that we've talked about very openly. My son asked, like, Do you think you'll get divorced? I was like, probably not, but that doesn't mean that I'm not gonna fall in love with other people. And he was like, I get that. So, like, it's just, it's just always been something that we've talked about openly. So, like, there's not ever been something to be ashamed of. However, there are many, many families that start differently that open up later in life. And so I have a whole chapter on like mistakes, like fuck-offs that people have made. And like when your 12-year-old opens up your phone and sees a a sext from someone, like, is that the way you want them to find out? Or would you like to have to find out through age-appropriate disclosures? Um, and so like I have like templates on like how you might talk about this if you have a nine-year-old versus a 16-year-old, um, so that you don't run into the accidental, you know, cell phone uh disclosure.
Speaker: 13:40
Yeah, yeah. That's brilliant. That's amazing. I um similarly, uh 12 years ago, like my my husband and I have never been monogamous together. Um, and and so, but so we've never been monogamous together. Uh, we started. Um, however, I am a very jealous and possessive person. So I was like, well, I'm gonna have to figure all this out.
Speaker 1: 14:02
That's so funny. So, so I actually, so in the book, I have a chapter on jealousy and FOMO. Um, and um, and I did a read through of the full book on YouTube. So you can go to YouTube and look up Polyagony and you can see it all. Um, and if you don't want to read it, you can just watch me reading. I don't know how fun that is. But the point is, uh, the YouTube channel, the most popular chapter is jealousy and FOMO. Um, and so, and so it doesn't mean you don't have it. Uh like, you know, like you still can feel it. In fact, what was funny with with us was that I was feeling jealousy until until he modeled, I don't have to get jealous. Like, we're still here. And I was like, oh, that's what that can look like. Interesting. Um, so yeah, we're still humans. We've still been in culture just like everybody else to to have to have those issues.
Speaker: 14:47
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Amazing. Um the kids, I uh same. My kids have just grown up with it. Um, but I always tell people always go, well, what about your kids? And mine are a little older because my husband and I met when our kids were like five and two. And um uh everyone's like, well, what what about the kids? I'm like, nobody sits down with your kids. Like they go, okay, now it's time. Let me tell you, mom and daddy are monogamous and and what that means if no.
Speaker 1: 15:18
Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because I what I what I say in the book is is that like your kids don't want to know about your sex life. Even if you're monogamous, your kids don't want to know about your sex life. So, so like, yeah, that's not something that comes up, right? I think it's more about like how how you're in community. Like, I'm kitchen table poly. And so for me, like I want my like my kids to be friends with the kids of my lovers. And so we have barbecues every Sunday and all of us all hang out together. And um, and like like I'm by coastal, right? So my my son is is gonna be in California with me next week and he has a play date every day with a child who likely has a parent that at some point I dated. And like that's okay, you know? Um, and and like and he knows that he's like, Oh yeah, Ryan's mommy's ex-boyfriend. Um, and it's like it's it's just it's just not a thing. Like it is just something that he doesn't he doesn't know any different. Um, but no one's talking about their sex life with their kids. That's just not something that we would be talking about, whether we were monogamous or otherwise.
Speaker: 16:15
Right? Exactly. Exactly. Amazing. Um what okay, what would you say has been your biggest like challenge or struggle through open relating?
Speaker 1: 16:32
Yeah, there's a couple. I'm gonna go real deep for a second and then I'll make it lighter again. Um and and the the the the deeper answer to that is there's there's a lot of trade-offs. There's a lot of trade-offs um to to to choose this for yourself. Um and you know, for me, I am poly as an identity. This is not a lifestyle choice. This is not something I do that I could just take it or leave it, and like I could, you know, go be a monogamous with the with the, you know, like that's just that people say that, and I'm like, great, that's great for you. That's not me. Um that that means you're doing this as a lifestyle choice. I'm doing this as an identity. I am, this is a part of who I am. It's a part of the shape of my heart. Um and because of that, um, I've taken quite a few trade-offs. One of them, um, I owned a leadership academy called the Boston Breakthrough Academy for four years and graduated a thousand adults through at emotional intelligence trainings. And two of my students um were married, monogamous married, and um, there was a severe domestic violence situation to the point where the wife died, and the husband was in trial for murder, and they had three kids under the age of six. And um, and the the lawyers for the children asked my husband and I to come forward and apply for custody of these kids because they weren't in a safe environment. And we did that, and we were in court for several months. The husband who was in trial knew that we were polyamorous and used it against us in court. Um, and the judge ultimately ruled against us, and he ruled against us because we're polyamorous. And it was the wrong answer. These these kids are in an unsafe environment right now. And, you know, even though we had social workers and therapists all speaking to like how well balanced our home is and how happy our children are and all of that, it was the wrong answer. And so you can do two things when something like this happens in your life. You can choose to go back down the path of monogamy and do what you're told, um, and like what what society says you must do, or you can choose to advocate. And I was like, I'm gonna go advocate. And so I am now committed to normalizing a conversation around non-traditional family structures so that children don't end up in this situation again. Like there are beautiful homes where children can thrive that have two moms, have a sperm donor as a parent. You know, like there are so many non-traditional family structures that like it's not okay. It's not okay that our courts are still rolling this way in 2026. Um, and so, so that that's one of the trade-offs. I'll go lighter in a second, but is there anything you wanted to respond to on that? No, that just uh I I yes.
Speaker: 19:02
They chose wrong.
Speaker 1: 19:03
Yeah, it was just it was it was it was it was such a heartbreaking experience, you know, because um we were just like, how, how is this the right answer when there's a loving family that wants to take these three kids in? So um, so that's another reason why I wrote the book. And I'm doing a TED talk in the fall on the topic of non-traditional family structure. Like this is really, I'm very, very passionate about it. Um, but one of the lighter trade-offs is, you know, um, when you're open relating, you have more to process just all the time, right? And so, like, it's one thing to have one partner to process with, it's another thing to have multiple partners to process with, with multiple different agreements, with multiple different relationship structures, with multiple different attachment styles. Um, you know, and so my husband is avoidant dismissive, and my my partner, I have two other partners. One of my male partner is anxious, uh, actually, and my female partner is anxious. So I have three different relationship dynamics to be working with, three different sets of agreements, three different potentials for breakdowns, three different metamorph environments to be navigating um back and forth between one another. Um, and so that's a trade-off. It's a lot of work um and it's a lot of processing.
Speaker: 20:19
Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely. I do, I get that question a lot. Like, how do I navigate my partners wanting different things and wanting different agreements or their their uh desires or or needs in relationship like contradict each other? Or how do I how do I do that?
unknown: 20:39
Yeah.
Speaker 1: 20:40
It's hard and the answer is you talk, you talk, you talk a lot, you know, and and um and and and that's what like I I tell people like this is not for the week of week of stomach or week of heart. Like you have to be like ready and willing to have a lot of conversations, um, and and to be like willing to talk through a lot of emotions. And for me, I find that to be so fulfilling, you know, like I'm I grow so much with every discussion, with every conversation. But many um who fall on the avoidance scale are gonna have a hard time um with non-monogamy because like you gotta talk, you gotta talk to your partners. And like that's the only way that this is gonna work long term.
Speaker: 21:20
Right, right. Why can't it just be easy and happy?
Speaker 1: 21:24
And you know, sometimes it can be. Sometimes it can be super light. Like, you know, I talk about the swinger environment. And the swinger environment, it's just sex, right? And like that's that's really attractive to a lot of people. Is like that we're not involving a ton of a ton of emotion here. Um, and so some people choose that path.
Speaker: 21:42
Yeah, yeah, truly. That that that makes so much sense. And I I've gone I've done all the oh I probably every variety of non-monogamy there is for the most part. Uh-huh. And and there's so many good things in each one. And my favorite is where my communities intersect of like swinger-ish, polyamory-ish, kinky-ish, like where all of those people intersect. That is, that's my favorite. Yes.
Speaker 1: 22:16
It's it's interesting. Um, because I so I I I hosted a play party. I um uh, you know, uh for my poly sphere, uh, my east coast and west coast poly kill. I hosted a play party four years ago for my birthday. And I hosted one on Friday night and one on Saturday night. And I realized I had to do two different ones at the time because half of the people in my sphere are swinger and half the people in my sphere are poly. And I was like, oh, I don't know how to do this because like it's two completely different environments. So I started off having two parties. I don't do that anymore. Now they all come together at the same time. Um, but like, like I was like, I don't know how how they're gonna interact with each other. They did great, they did wonderful, they're all adults, but uh, but it took me some time to get comfortable with that.
Speaker: 22:55
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. What um speaking of your polysphere, I think, I think uh uh community is a really important part of this. Um, and it goes along with the advocacy and just kind of normalizing non-monogamy and normalizing um how all the different ways that we can relate. And I I so many people are moving from monogamy or opening up from monogamy, and all their friends are monogamous and their family's monogamous, and we have clearly have a monogamous culture. Um, and so community and finding people is like one of the most important ways to feel normal, not weird, like not like an outcast, right? What um, you know, and and you have this big polysphere. How do people find community? Are there like resources or um like what what kind of recommendations do you make?
Speaker 1: 23:52
There are, there are resources. Um so so depending upon where you're located. Um so if you're in the country in the US, um there's you know, there's bonobos on the West Coast, which is an organization of of um uh sex positive polyindividuals. There's you know, there are other organizations on the East Coast, um uh a few um that I I all of the resources by the way are in polyagony.com. Um, but uh there there are also, you know, there's the International School of Temple Arts, um, which is a more um worldwide organization that kind of kind of can provide guidance. Um and and also ultimately, you know, there are um there are directories for polyinformed therapists. Um and I'm a big believer, if you're thinking about opening up your relationship, the very first thing you should do is read some books and contact a polyinformed therapist. And so the books I recommend are Sex at Dawn by Esther Perrell and Ethical Slut and Polywise, Polysecure More Than Two, and obviously Polyagony. Um, and like arm yourself with information. Um, talk to your therapist. And often polyinformed therapists will plug you into communities that are local to you and where where you'll where you'll have a support system. Um, because that's that's incredibly important.
Speaker: 25:07
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. There's there's something really um when people feel isolated and they're feeling like, oh, a little bit of shame or weirdness about about what they want or what they're doing. And they're like, I I don't know. Like I know when I when I first started actively being non-monogamous, I I didn't know anybody. I didn't know swingers, I didn't know polyamorous people, I didn't know anybody who wasn't just like cheating. And I was like, I was uh getting divorced and I was like, I never want to get married again. I also am horny. So I think I'm just gonna be really slutty and be honest about it. Yeah. And I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know, I was like, ah, I don't know what to do. And then I started meeting people and I was like, oh, this was not an original idea.
Speaker 1: 25:53
Yeah. I think, I think honestly, so many of us who started this a while ago, like you and I both did, we learn by dating. Like I learned by dating people, and I go on a date and I'd be like, oh, this is a group that exists. Oh, this is a party I can go to. Oh, this is a a website I, you know, I learned by going on dates. I think what's beautiful now is there are resources like your podcast, like my book, right? Like that there are resources um that are available that you don't have to learn this through your vagina, that you can actually learn this um ahead of time. Um, which, you know, not osmosis. Exactly. Yeah. I'm absorbing something. I don't know. Yeah. Right.
Speaker: 26:37
It's amazing. Oh my gosh, I love it. Um what what okay, I'm curious, where do you see the future of uh non-mon ethical non-monogamy, open relating? Like, like how do you see relationships changing?
Speaker 1: 26:54
Well, it's interesting. So um, so now, you know, 70% of marriages end of end in divorce now. 78% of American public uh adults have said that they have cheated at some point in their lives. And so people are generally unhappy with their sexuality. That's what that tells me, right? Um, and are looking for something different. 20% of American adults now identify as non-monogamous, and that's a very fast-growing subculture. And so what I actually see is that that this will continue to grow. Just like the LGBTQ community has continued to grow and evolve, and it's become a more um open and normalized conversation over time. I think that we're going to continue to see broader and more diverse family structures. Like that, that's what I care about is the family structures, right? And so it's like, okay, like as an example, and in my family, my husband is a sperm donor for a very dear friend of ours who is not a lover of either one of ours, but who, like, we very much wanted our son to have a sibling. And so we now are doing that in a non-traditional way. I think this is going to be much more common. Um, and I think that thanks to the non-monogamous community who started this, um, we're gonna see more and more of this over time.
Speaker: 27:60
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it it really feels like a shift back to uh communities that, you know, like what is the saying? It takes a village to raise a child, right? Like a shift back to communal environments, yes.
Speaker 1: 28:16
Communal, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. And and it's interesting, like I mentioned, I'm I'm bi-coastal, and so half the year I'm in San Diego. There are communal environments here in San Diego. Like there communal living is actually very, very common in Southern California. And so I I forget that the rest of the world doesn't live this way. And I'm like, oh, that's such a shame. Um, and and I I think we'll see much more of that.
unknown: 28:39
Yeah.
Speaker: 28:39
I sure hope so. I sure hope so. Me too. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you want to share?
Speaker 1: 28:49
I think um, I think the the only thing I would say is uh if you're finding yourself stuck, you could be poly unstuck, you could be mono unstuck. Um the the reason I wrote this book, the way that I wrote it, was to help people get unstuck. Um and and and so so the the invite the invitation is, you know, where are you stuck? There's there's a book now for that, there's a chapter for that. Um and so one of the areas that like has has been the most common is around parenting. Um and like, how do I do this with my kids? Like it's one thing to negotiate this with your partner. It's another thing to negotiate this with your kids. And particularly if you have older kids, you know, who either don't want to know about it, don't want to meet your partners, or, you know, they want some form of don't ask, don't tell. You know, there's there's this whole I wrote a chapter in the book around transparency versus disclosure. And you may want to be very dis transparent, but your other people in your life may not wish for you to disclose. And so, so like there's there's a fine line there between forming agreements around disclosure and around time, around continuing to create specialness. Um, and so that that come, I mean, it's obvious with if you have a primary partner, but it's also super obvious if you have kids. Like, yeah, like actually going through your parenting responsibilities. I mean, like, okay, do I actually have time for this? And how much time do I have available for this? And so can I share that with partners so that they understand I can only see you twice a month because my kids have needs every night of the week, right? Whatever that is. Um, and I just think it's interesting as I'm as I'm in doing a lot of these podcast interviews, everybody who's not your podcast um is super, they think that this is only for single people, like only for people who are like haven't settled down yet. And and I'm like, oh no, no, no. There's there's a whole population of us who have kids and who are figuring it out. And I think there's there's like a widespread assumption that once you have kids, you'll just settle down and you'll just shut up, you'll just shut off anything below your belt. Um, and and like that's not true. And um, and it's it's something I very much want to dispel, right? It's a it's a myth I want to dispel that there are so many of us who are in families who are figuring this out, but it's that is that is a whole category of mistakes that can happen that I don't want to make mistakes when it comes to my kids. You know, like I don't want my kids to find things out um in a suboptimal way. Um I want to make sure that I'm disclosing things that are appropriate for them for their you know level of understanding. Um, and so that's the one thing that I think that we just all need to hold very sacred is like how we navigate this with our children.
Speaker: 31:38
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. That makes me think of um so often I see in uh, you know, like uh polygroups, people looking for support of um couples with children, people with children who are trying to navigate their like time, right? Oh, my partner, you know, wants to go out twice a week and then I'm here, I'm putting the kids to bed. Uh-huh. And it's like, it's like the answer every time is like, okay, wait, what do the kids need? What are the parents of the parenting responsibilities and the kids' needs here? Let's start with that and then hash out the rest.
Speaker 1: 32:17
Yes. It's so interesting to hear you say that, Alicia, because um, so so my son is six and a half, and um, and I like our family is by coastal. And so the way that that looks is that um in the fall and the spring, our family lives in Boston, um, which is where my son goes to school. In the summer, our entire family goes to San Diego and spends the summer in San Diego. And in the winter, I go to San Diego by myself. Um, and and I travel back and forth freely, and my husband and son travel back and forth freely, but he's in school. So he he stays in Boston and I'm in California. And this is the first year we're doing this. It's an experiment. Um, because I want to be living here and my my husband wants to be living in Boston and we want to find a way to make it happen. We're like, we're a non-traditional family, we can figure this out, right? But the very first thing I did is I went to my son and I said, if mommy goes to California for the winter, how do you want this to look? And he was six years old and he said, Well, mom, it's obvious. Like I'm in school at Waldorf, so you're gonna have to come back and visit me, and I'll just come see you on long weekends and on breaks. Like, it's so obvious, right? But what that did is it gave him a voice, it gave him agency, it gave him the ability to direct something that could have been very uncomfortable for him and where he could have felt like he didn't have any control. And so now, you know, I'm gonna go pick him up tomorrow and we're flying out here and spending 10 days out here during his break, and we'll go back. And and and like his teachers and his his therapists were like, he's he's great, like he's doing great. Um, because he had a say and and what this looks like.
Speaker: 33:52
Yeah, yeah. That's brilliant. That's really brilliant. Uh I think I love that because so much of the kind of issues that come up for for parents around dating and and the kids, right? Is that the kids don't have a say usually? Even things like like when um a lot of people have questions like well, at what point, like how long do I need to be dating a partner before I introduce them to my child? And what if what if this isn't a forever thing? And I'm like, how many kids change teachers every year? Very important person in their life. How many kids see their favorite cousins only on two holidays a year? Right? Like, like there's so many people that come in and out of kids' lives, and it's fine. Kids are usually fine with that. But then we go, but this one person you're dating is supposed to take on a parenting role. Well, no, that's a weird assumption. And and people come in and out of kids' lives.
Speaker 1: 34:49
Yeah, it's interesting. Like, you know, whenever whenever I have a new partner, I immediately want to find a way to introduce them. And when I always introduce them, I introduce them in a social environment, like at a barbecue, like because now we're among friends, right? So now my child is seeing them among friends. Oh, they're a friend, great. And then as as like they come around more often, it's just natural. It's just like, of course, of course they're around. Like, yeah, they're you're every Sunday for our barbecues. Um, and and so I I'm a big fan, and that's why kitchen table poly for me just makes so much sense. Because then it's like, well, we're all a community. And so my and even before, you know, we were like during COVID, for instance, you know, we obviously weren't opening up at that point. And during that time, I was running a leadership academy and we created a germ circle of people in our leadership academy who would come over for dinners and stuff. And so my my son has always been in community. It's just always been a part of our lives. And so, yeah, so when someone new enters, of course they're gonna get introduced. Why wouldn't they?
Speaker: 35:47
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Amazing. I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1: 35:51
How can they do thank you? But I I'll just say one other thing on this one is um is it is important to also ask your children how they want to interact. Like if a partner does become more serious and like, and and now like they're they're around more often, asking your child, like, you know, like you know, mommy's dating so and so, how do you feel about that? Like, like your child should have a say. I don't want them telling me what to do. I don't want them like telling me yes or no. Like they should have a say in that. Um, and and we should be asking them. Like you had mentioned, like, yeah, we're not asking them be a parent until maybe we do someday. And so then it's like, okay, that transition is something that now we get to navigate among multiple parties to make sure it feels good for everyone. So yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
unknown: 36:38
Yeah.
Speaker 1: 36:38
So you asked, how do people find me? So it's very easy. You can find everything that I'm working on, whether it's workshops I'm facilitating, events I'm hosting, and the book, all at polyagony.com. Um, that's the one stop shop for all things candles.
Speaker: 36:51
Super easy.
Speaker 1: 36:52
I love that. I love that.
Speaker: 36:54
Okay, I have one more question for you. This one um doesn't go on the main episode. It's for uh supporters of the show on our Patreon at patreon.com slash not monogamous. And it's uh the segment is just the tip. And it's what is a favorite or best sex tip that you would share with people?
Speaker 1: 37:12
Oh man. Oh my goodness.
Speaker: 37:14
Um my God, I love this so much. Uh I'm gonna go check that out.
Speaker 1: 37:33
Please do. Please do. Thank you so much, Alicia. It was so great meeting you.
Speaker: 37:37
Thank you. Thank you. That was Candace's juicy tip. If you missed it, go to patreon.com/notmonogamous m and come hang out with us. That's where all of the like extra spicy behind-the-scenes, slightly less filtered goodness lives. You can support the show and me. And, you know, I really loved this conversation. Candace is one of those humans where you can feel the depth. Like she's not theorizing about non-monogamy. She's lived it, she's built a family in it, she's made mistakes in it, repaired inside it, which uh really is where the the like the wisdom comes from. This is where we get that wisdom. So I so appreciate how honest she is about the messy parts and the parenting and the emotional labor and not just the shiny comparison, uh, nope, compersion, not just the fun parts that that we often see online. Uh, because as we all know, life is not perfect. It's very human. You get to design it in a way that actually fits you. And I hope you are doing that. And if this episode made you feel seen or gave you something to think about, go hit all the good buttons, right? Follow, subscribe, leave a review or a comment. I'm happy to read your comments and respond, uh, or send it to a friend or a partner who needs to hear this. That's how we grow this little show, and it helps more people realize that they're not alone. All right, friend. You are not too much, you're not broken, you're uh perfect as exactly as you are, and you get to build relationships that feel really expansive and true for you. And I'll see you next week. Bye.