Creating Sexy, Safe, and Soulful Community, Ep. 118
What actually happens at sex-positive events? Cuddle parties? Consent circles? Erotic service? 👀 In this episode of Nope! We're Not Monogamous, I sit down with Jamie Love, Executive Director of Sex Positive World, to talk about the radical, healing, and totally human side of building sex-positive community.
We cover:
How to start a sex-positive space or community near you
What consent really looks like (hint: it’s not just “yes or no”)
Erotic service, safer sex talks, and the power of devotional touch
What to expect at events like cuddle parties, massage-a-trois, and self-pleasure circles
Jamie’s relationship style: when your community is your primary partner
The truth about creating spaces that are inclusive, beginner-friendly, and deeply transformative
And what’s coming up at Polytopia 2025—Portland’s conference for polyamorous people, where I’ll be a featured speaker!
If you’re curious about non-monogamy, ethical sluthood, radical consent, or how to make friends (and maybe lovers) outside the mainstream—this episode is for you.
🔗 LEARN MORE
👉 Sex Positive World: https://www.sexpositiveworld.org
👉 Polytopia Conference: https://www.sexpositiveportland.org/polytopia-2025
👉 Jamie Love on Instagram: https://instagram.com/jamielove_pdx
👉 Support the show + get bonus content: https://patreon.com/notmonogamous
👉 Learn more about me: https://www.elleciapaine.com
📰 Subscribe to Not A Monogamous Newsletter to stay up to date with new episodes and offerings from Ellecia. https://elleciapaine.podia.com/newsletter
❤️ Enjoying the show? The best way to thank us is by following and leaving a review or a note. And if you want more, join our Patreon! http://www.patreon.com/notmonogamous
👀 Find Us Online
🌍 Website: https://www.elleciapaine.com
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/elleciapaine
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elleciapaine/
Music: Composer/Author (CA): Oscar Lindstein
STIM IPI: 572 393 237
TRANSCRIPT:
Ellecia: [00:00:00] In a world that teaches us to shut down our pleasure, what does it take to reclaim it together? Community builder, Jamie Love shares the real magic behind sex positive spaces and why they matter Now more than ever. Welcome back to, Nope, we are not monogamous. I'm El Ellecia Payne, your non-monogamous relationship coach.
I am super excited to bring you this episode because I got to sit down again with the radiant community obsessed, boundary loving Jamie love. Jamie's the Executive Director of Sex Positive World and the fierce and tender Heart behind Sex Positive Portland, and they've built a global movement around radical consent, pleasure based learning, and community as a healing force.
So today in this conversation, we're talking about everything from why saying no can actually be a turn on to the power of erotic devotional service to what it really takes to create sustainable, inclusive, sex positive spaces. And Jamie also shares the behind the scenes scoop on Polytopia, [00:01:00] Portland's polyamory conference where I'm one of the speakers this September, uh, and I was a speaker last year and all of the delicious offerings that they have planned for poly topia.
If you've ever wanted to attend a cuddle party or learn how to script your safer sex talk, or just learn how to show up to sexy spaces, feeling more confident and clear, then this episode's for you. Let's get into it. Okay. Uh, welcome to, Nope, we're not monogamous, and, I'm really happy that you're here again.
And, um, will you share for the listeners just a little bit about who you are, Jamie?
Jamie: Yeah, absolutely. My name is Jamie Love. I use they or she pronouns. Um, I'm on this podcast because I'm polyamorous. Uh, the long quote is I have a really cool job. I am the executive Director of Sex Positive Portland, which is a community and a nonprofit, um, which can be a little bit difficult to understand, right.[00:02:00]
Um, what we do is we provide education like sex education, consent, education, how we talk about pleasure and identities, and that lets us do some really cool things like cuddle parties, um, or sex ed for grownups or masturbation circles or massage nights, everything very consent forwards, somatic based and community focused.
So if you're wanting to explore. Explore aspects of sexuality. It's not linked also to relationship, um, as in like a romantic relationship. So that's the long and short of what I do is I build these events and experiences where people can really explore their sensuality, their sexuality, their relationship style, uh, in a way that is in community rather than just in relationship.
I mean, you can do it in relationship also, but it's really about that. Freedom of choice, that body sovereignty and being able to change your mind about what you do and don't like as well as have opportunities to try new things. So that's the long and short of what [00:03:00] I get to do. Um, I'm polyamorous, I am an ethical slut.
I, I'm very much in the ENM end of the pool where my partners have a lot of freedom and so do I, and that seems to work really, really well for us. I'm a little bit kinky. I'm a nudist and I just love being in community and seeing new things. Major, major voyeur. That's what happens when you, uh, are a community organizer.
I think you have to be a bit of a voyeur.
Ellecia: Yes, yes. I recently was like, actually, I, as much as an exhibitionist as I am, I'm a little bit of an emotional voyeur. I'm like, watch love watching people like love on each other. Nice. That's amazing. Thank you so much. I'm so happy that you're here and I am also really, really excited because, uh, Polytopia is coming up soon and, um, and I'm gonna be one of the speakers.
Thank you for inviting me back because that was such a good time last [00:04:00] year. I am, I'm curious what you are most excited about this time around.
Jamie: Um, so let's see here. Poly topia was around before the COVID times, right? It was this conference that we did here in Portland on an annual basis before I was around and part of the organization.
And last year was the first time that we had done it since the pandemic. Um, so there was this like, how do we do this? Can we still do this? Do we have the volunteers to make it happen? Because this is. Um, you know, a hundred folks showing up. There's workshops, um, there's a lot of moving parts. There was a big show on Saturday night.
Um. Part of what was really fun for me on that Saturday is, um, Ellecia, you, we had your workshop in one of the smaller rooms, um, which was like a, how I make like jealousy work for you and make jealousy sexy. And the room was packed. Like there were people trying to like climb to the room and we were like, we thought the jealousy workshop would be the one.
Everyone's like, we got this. I don't need that workshop,
Ellecia: [00:05:00] everybody. So, um, it, it, there were people on the floor. They were put like, like stopping people at the door, like, we're at capacity. And I was like, oh my God, don't puke. Ugh.
Jamie: So like that's one kind of fun, exciting aspect of it is like you make a prediction about what you think people want. So right now we have about six speakers lined up and three more that we're like finalizing and it's like, okay, we want like the 1 0 1 stuff, right? Like the jealousy stuff, the opening up stuff they, how to not make your Polly look like.
Monogamy because oops, that will not work out well. Nine times outta 10. Yeah. Also, like the advanced stuff, like, um, how do we, how do we get property together? How do we raise kids together? How do we do end of life planning and retirement together? Um, like those are all pieces of our relationships that we might miss out on if we don't do things in a more traditional way.
So, uh, what's exciting to me is seeing what people are actually [00:06:00] hungry for. We're gonna have a lot of, um, meals this year. Last year we didn't have meals. And what's fun to me about meals. Is we can have social space. What's important to me in Poly is the amount of friends I have who are not my partners that are also poly, so that I'm having weirdness.
I actually have people to talk to about the weirdness who are going to get it. So, uh, all of those community building parts and just not knowing. 'cause this year is also, we're gonna have 200 people, so it's twice as big. We have these meals and there's a whole extra day. Last year we started like Friday night.
This year, we start Friday morning. So I'm, I'm excited. I'm really excited for who's coming in from outta town and what it's gonna look
Ellecia: like. Yes. Oh my gosh. I'm even more excited now. I just learned a bunch of things I didn't even know. I'm stoked. That's awesome. I love, love, love the community piece. I've been talking about this a lot, um, with my clients and with my community.
[00:07:00] Uh, how often people feel like. An outsider or a newcomer or like they're, I am the only one doing weird things and, and I'm like, you, you have to find community because we can't, it's so hard to feel safe, to feel confident in the things, the, like the choices you're making in your life. If you aren't, if you don't have other people validating and going, yeah, this is fine, you're okay.
We accept you.
Excuse me.
Jamie: Yeah, that's real. Especially, um, after the pandemic times, uh, where we were in forced isolation and then it was like this choice to come out of isolation. Some, there were some parts of it, like work you had to, uh, but I, there are people who still now in 2025 are coming out some of their very first social events since the isolation of the pandemic.
Um, and then like, we're so isolated anyways, uh, by our social [00:08:00] media and the algorithms that keep us kinda. It placated it on our phone. So I, I think having those third places are so important and having community and people to talk to and yeah, confirm like that you're not weird. And the other people have been through this.
Um, I was just at a pride event this last weekend, and of course I was talking about poly topia and some folks are looking at me like, I don't really get it. And then there were a lot of folks who were just like, oh my God, I wasn't expecting anything poly related to be here today. Um, and, and just with like excitement, because we don't always talk about this piece of ourselves.
So the fact that I was just bringing it up and saying, and there's workshops and this whole conference you can come to, and also we do community support groups once a month. It, it was really wonderful because it can feel so isolating. Like, I don't wanna
Ellecia: talk about this part of me. Yep. Yep. A hundred percent.
A hundred percent. Um, I wonder what, what do you wish more. Like more newcomers or [00:09:00] like, like people who are, are stepping into, like going to a sex positive space or polyamory, uh, communities. Like what do you wish that they knew coming in? Coming in?
Jamie: Hmm. Uh, for, for one, like everyone is just as nervous and scared to try this as you are.
Um, we live in a culture where sexuality is treated as quite dangerous, um, as something that you need to control and it could take over and, and oh my God, all the terrible things will happen. Or, um, there'll be an STI outbreak. So like for one that we all have that. Script in our brain, like we're, we're all nervous that something might happen.
Um, what you'll find when you go to a dungeon or a sex positive community, um, or comes like poly topia, is people are friendly and fairly normal. And the thing is, when you start dripping sexuality and relationships into regular conversation, it kind of just becomes normal. [00:10:00] Like I grew up in a household where we did not talk about sex.
We fast forward and passed any sex scenes, like it was just like a non-starter. And now I'm in a community where like sexuality is so normal and natural and it flows and it feels so much nicer to me because that's a huge part of myself. So I would say that's a big one for people coming into community is like, for one, if you're in a place where things are happening, you don't want happening, get out of that place because unfortunately that does happen.
Um, but by and large you're gonna find that folks really, they want to be social, they wanna get to know you and, um. It's not the kind of place that, well, my spaces that we may create in sex positive are not predatory. Um, we really want people to be able to find their feet and make intentional choices that feel really good.
There are predatory communities out there. I'm not gonna pretend like that doesn't exist. Um, but. It should feel comfortable. It should feel like family. It should feel [00:11:00] like a group of friends. And nine times outta 10, the first time that you go to something like it's, it's not like a sex party. That's the other piece.
People think they, I'm going to a dungeon. Uh, I'm, I've joined this sex positive organization. They're gonna have a cuddle. I wonder what's gonna happen. And then you cuddle everyone's clothes, stay on. It doesn't get sexy. You know, there was the cuddle party rule, like no humping, uh. You, you actually get what they say it's gonna be.
So, uh, that's it. I'm just give it a shot, go to a munch, go meet some folks. And you might be surprised just how normal it is.
Ellecia: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I wonder, would you say, excuse me, allergies? Yeah. Um, I wonder if that is like the biggest. Aha. That people have when they go, you know, like to a cuddle party or a massage party or you know, poly topia if they're like, oh, [00:12:00] this is just socializing.
Jamie: Yeah. I mean, and that's an important step to get to that thing of like. Do we wanna pursue partnership? Do we wanna go on a date? Do we wanna have this threesome is like, if you don't have that base, especially if you're in already some kind of dynamic and relationship, like that's, that's so important to have the ability to actually get to know people and whether or not the relationship is gonna flow.
Ellecia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I think because we have such a. Um, like porn driven sexuality in our culture, um, that people who are, who have been monogamous and are like opening up or, or moving into non-monogamy, have this kind of light switch mentality. Like, like you flip the light on or off on being monogamous or non-monogamous, which then it looks like.
Either we don't have sex with other people, or now we are suddenly having [00:13:00] sex with other people and there's no like in-between those two things in their mind, like in that like the journey that they're taking and they're like, okay, we have to go find someone to have sex with and then we're just gonna immediately.
Put penises in vaginas, uh, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You can slow down. Like maybe have conversations with people, maybe see what it's like to hold hands with someone or kiss them outside of your, like the relationship you've got established, like, like have like a dimmer switch on your monogamy to non-monogamy light switch.
Jamie: Well, and also just the reality, like you don't know what you're gonna get. And, um, it's one of the exciting things about non-monogamy and dating like a new person is that you can jump into all of these brand new red flags and relational problems. Somebody like I had a. I had somebody four years ago who is love bombing a partner, and the partner did not recognize the love bombing.
And I'm like, they're kinda obsessed with you and buying you gifts [00:14:00] and texting you every day. This is making me uncomfortable, even if it doesn't have a huge effect on my life, 'cause I don't live with that partner. Um, but you have to learn those like nuanced relationship parts and how to not, you know.
Take away from your other relationships. Like it's a completely different skillset to go non-monogamous, and it's that bittersweetness, it's like, um. You're, you're moving into this new relationship style. You've opened up all these possibilities. You've also closed doors on some possibilities. Like, uh, I'm a person who doesn't have kids, so I have a lot of freedom in life and I can do a lot of things and, uh, I'm not bogged down by needing to be home by a certain time or if someone gets injured.
All of the things that, like my sisters might deal with who do have kids. It also shuts doors on other things. Like there's other things I don't have access to or experiences in life I'm not gonna have, and I think non-monogamy and monogamy kinda has the same thing of like, it's switching things on and off and it learning [00:15:00] a new skillset because it's a completely new way to do relationships and it will close the relationships you're already in.
Ellecia: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's, that's, I, I really think I, I love that we're talking about this because that's what. Is so important about events like poly topia is being able to go and talk to people and see what, what options there are, what are all the options, what are, what are the things that are gonna be impacted that I don't even have awareness of?
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. And there's also like, we have this idea of like doing things right. If I'm doing it right, then I'm good. Um, you know, and it comes from this place of like, I had to get an A in school, I had to achieve, and relationships are not. School relationships are not a test. So it's also like, how do I know that I'm meeting green flags in this relationship?
How do I know I'm actually taking care of this in a way that takes care of the relationship? How do I know I'm being taken care of now that I have all these connections? That's, yeah, again, poly [00:16:00] topia and events like it. 'cause there's lots of poly conferences and places to meet folks and there's so much value in that because you learn those skills and then you also normalize when weird things are happening, well not normalize when weird things are happening, you, you get some guidance when
Ellecia: weird
Jamie: things happen.
Ellecia: You can start recognizing them because if, if you are, uh, if you're, your non-monogamy mentor is just some person that you met on a dating site and they've been non-monogamous six months longer than you, and you're like, well, they must know everything. I'll do whatever they say. And then later you go and have, find community and you talk to people and you're like, oh, they weren't right.
Yeah.
Jamie: There, there's a little bit also of like, like I mentioned, um, I'm, I'm an ethical slut. I, I really don't hold a lot of relationships so closely. Like, I, I need a label. If it doesn't have a label, I'm not gonna be happy. I'm not, I'm a, I'm a dismissive attachment person, obviously. Um, so, [00:17:00] um. That sometimes doesn't work.
'cause we sometimes have this idea that like the, the true poly is the one that's three people in a committed relationship. You know? And, and like it's really monogamy 2.0. Yeah. And really devalue the fact that folks like me are around where I'm an ethical slut and I have a handful of folks that like I see fairly frequently, but it's not.
In that same model, and I'm only describing two of probably a dozen different types of poly that are far more common. So sometimes we end up in this kind of rut of trying to make poly look like and feel like monogamy instead of exploring it for the strange, new, mysterious thing that it is.
Ellecia: Uh huh Uhhuh, like, like what is it that you actually like and want?
I think a lot of people have, uh, they struggle to find like the, the, the right version of non-monogamy for themselves. Um, what would you say helped you move from [00:18:00] the standard, uh, couple based model to how you relate now?
Jamie: I'll start by saying, I was raised Christian, so I was raised to believe in monogamy, insist hetero normalcy and monogamy, and it wasn't until.
College, we, I even had like a proper, like safer sex conversation of any kind, like a psych 1 0 1 class. So that's like my starting place. Um, when I got introduced to polyamory, it was a boyfriend that wanted two girlfriends, you know? Mm-hmm. It's like every definition of toxic getting started and not in monogamy, because it was, it was all about him.
And of course, once we opened up our relationship, I got all the attention and he didn't like that. So when I got out of that relationship, I started going to poly support groups, um, which I highly, highly recommend. And I learned a lot of relationship skills and that's where I started experimenting. So I [00:19:00] tried the, well, we'll be in a relationship, but we can also play on the side.
Well, we'll do, we'll do, um, three people in a relationship. And I don't like that one at all. That does not suit me. And then, um, when I talk about where I'm at now. Um, the way I got from here to there I think was mostly through community. Mm-hmm. The nice thing about community is what I mentioned at the very top of this is I got to try a lot of things and I also didn't feel like I owed anyone.
Um, I'm definitely a people pleaser. I will tolerate behavior from people. Because I think that they need that so that they, they feel good so that they, they feel complete. So being in a community where you don't tolerate, you say no, and if someone says no to you, you don't think it personally, it let me actually try a lot of things.
Like I found out I really love rope bondage, and it doesn't even have to be a sex thing. It doesn't have to be a [00:20:00] partner thing. It's, it's like going out dancing, dancing on the face of its fun. Bondage on the face of, it's very fun to me. Yeah. I wouldn't have known that if I couldn't have, if I had been in a community where I could just try it and try it with people where like, just like dancing, we go out dancing and then we all go home at the end of the night.
Sometimes you meet a sweet, cute person, sometimes you don't. So I got to actually try those things. Um, I was also receiving this message of like. Like casual relationships don't count as much. They're not as valuable. Um, and then like, are you getting the security that you need? Because I, I'm a woman. Um, I also need to get security from relationships, which plays on these heteronormative ideas that come from monogamy because.
We, a wife and a husband play specific roles. So it's been a hard journey because those stories keep reappearing even today. Um, I was talking with, [00:21:00] um, with my daddy, who I'm really close with, and I was talking about the fact that I felt like there was a level of commitment. And he went, I don't agree with that because commitments like I show up every single day and I was like, well, okay.
I actually don't want that type of relation. Like I travel a lot. I'm all over the place. I'm a super busy human. I don't need that daily. Check in that a lot of people find really, really, uh, grounding and secure. Um, so no shade on folks who want and need that in relationships. I'm a different kind of animal or plant, so I have different needs.
Um, and I really started getting into journaling about this and making my own story and my own green lights about how I know things are going well. So I was like, well, maybe committed iss not the word, but like. There's loyalty here. There's, you know, I got, I got injured recently, um, and I had a group of people that were willing to help me out.
Like it wasn't just me and my boyfriend, which is what's been in the past this [00:22:00] time. I had a, a handful of people to reach out to. And 'cause they're poly. I had a lot of like, network of support in it. So it was a rough journey because like I said, there's a lot of different ways to do poly and coming from a monogamy mindset, you want it to fit the monogamy model 'cause you don't realize there's other ways things can be.
So, um, I, I have my, my queer fam folks, I, I really prefer relationships that feel more like family, um, romantic relationships or like. They're just fraught with so many issues. And for me, like heteronormative thinking, um, I think that I'm my the worst when I try to be a, a good girlfriend because that's not on me, it's not built on my dynamic.
It's built on the cultural story of what girlfriend is uhhuh. So yeah, it can be a really complicated journey and I'm really happy that I have my, like. Community members where I have folks who are more like a mom or an aunt, or [00:23:00] people who have witnessed me, or I can be like, Hey, gamer, that guy I was seeing, he's back in my life and can I tell you about it?
Mm-hmm. Um, people that I'm not actively playing with, who are gonna get it, who really care about my wellbeing and that type of relationship suits me. It doesn't suit everybody. And if not for my community, giving me a soft place to land and be frustrated to not understand why things aren't working, um, to get into a more monogamous dynamic again and again, and then get out of it.
'cause I, I kind, you know, if somebody wants to be a partner and you go, okay, okay, it's only been a month, but let's be partners 'cause you seem to really need me to give you a title. And then six months later I go. Yeah. Now that I've actually gotten to know you, I don't know that I want this, like the title didn't mean a lot to me because I know it takes a year really to know if a relationship's sticky or not.
Ellecia: Yeah. Oh, that's really good actually. I think a lot of [00:24:00] people do that. They, they, they want the title or the label before they've even built the relationship, or they decide what they want a, a relationship to be before they even know the person in front of them.
Jamie: And I've been accused of being, um, icy, um, you know, which is, uh, definitely an egg towards someone who's feminine.
Uh, because, you know, I'm, I'm hard to, to reach. I'm, I'm emotionally distant and I'm like, uh, I don't know you yet. I don't know if you're a safe person yet. And they're like, but we have all this amazing connection. We have X, Y, and Z. And I go, we have X, Y, and z. But we don't have is the time. Uh, like you haven't seen what I'm like in different seasons.
You haven't seen me in grief, you haven't seen me with my family, you haven't seen me with like my best friend or going through something really hard. Like that's when you really know people.
Ellecia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Again, it all comes back to like, I, I don't know. I, I keep emphasizing to people like, you need.[00:25:00]
Community that is non-monogamous in order to feel good and comfortable and secure in non-monogamy because you don't know what you don't know. And this is like just even things like listening to the podcast, right? And hearing people's stories and going, oh, people are doing things in other ways. Or, oh, I, I thought that was a normal thing because that's how my life is going, even though I don't like it.
And now I'm hearing that there's other options.
Jamie: Yeah.
Ellecia: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. And when it comes to relationships, we definitely have a right, wrong mentality in America of, um, if these things are not going right in your relationships, just dump it. Yeah. Um, you know, and, and if they're not supporting you in these ways, then they, then your partner's just terrible.
Get rid of 'em. Like, like there's so many tropes that are on off. Yes. No, get rid of them. Don't work through the hard things. Like at least that's some of the messaging I hear. And it's, it's not helpful to actually building relationships when [00:26:00] you don't have a full picture of what's available to you. Yeah.
Yeah. Absolutely the pandemic. I did, uh, book clubs several times. I wasn't, I didn't identify as a reader before the pandemic, but we read Slut, we read Love's Not Colorblind, uh, good Sex by Jessica Fern and, um, some other Poly Secure was in there as well. And those were also really amazing because I started realizing how very, very different people's high functioning poly relationships were from mine.
And we were both right. Yes. And if not for the language of the books, really walking through all these different ideas, we wouldn't have realized that.
Ellecia: Or I wouldn't have. Yes, yes. Totally. Totally. Uh, how exciting. I love it. I'm, I'm so stoked. Um, you mentioned earlier, um,
you mentioned, uh, being able to say no. In spaces [00:27:00] and, and I, so I wanted to ask you about consent. Okay. And, and I know that you in, in sex positive Portland and the sex positive, positive world, you, um, teach really great enthusiastic consent. Yeah. Um, and so I was hoping you would touch on that.
Jamie: Yeah, uh, absolutely.
That's, that's a huge one for me because, um, you know. Good little girls do not speak up for themselves, and they, they allow things to happen. That is the way I was raised. Um, so when I came into Sex Positive Community, there was this class that is my favorite class to this day. It's called Awesome Boundaries.
And awesome boundaries. We do more than like we, we practice in sex positivity, saying no, and a positive affirmation of that. Someone says, no, I don't wanna kiss you. You say, oh, thanks for letting me know. Thank you for taking care of yourself, because it is that thing of. I wouldn't have wanted to kiss you if you didn't want it.
Like, thank you for stopping me from being that person. [00:28:00] Um, awesome Boundaries goes really deep into this, which by the way, is taught every other month on sliding scale on sex positive world.org. Um, amazing. We talk about like when you're a child, it's like if you don't clean your plate, then you're a bad kid.
Like we don't listen to the signals of our bodies. Like I talk about the Clean Play Club in that class. That's a bigger concept than just saying no. This is about a culture of manufactured consent that we live inside of. So we talk about power dynamics, we talk about expectations, we talk about how. We have a script about how we're supposed to treat people.
Like if someone is feminine versus super masculine, you are treated differently in the room, no question. And I think everyone can pretty well agree on that. That affects our ability to say yes and no. So for when we have this class that really explores all of this, and then also like what happens when you thought you were a [00:29:00] yes and then you start doing the thing with somebody else and you realize you're not into it.
Uh, the ability to realize that I wasn't into something was a skill I lacked for a long time. I would just be like, well, we're doing the kissing. And I don't know that like I'm really excited about the kissing, but I must keep kissing 'cause I wasn't recognizing the signals in my own body saying I'm not into this and I wanna stop.
So through sex positive, I learned that skill. How do I recognize when I don't wanna be doing something and then actually say something Because I had a lifetime of being the youngest sibling and being forced to do things I didn't wanna do and learning to tolerate it and not listen to the signals in my body telling me to stop.
So once I learned to actually speak up for myself, uh, then it's like, oh my God, people are so much better. They treat me so much better when they actually know what my boundaries are. Uh, I am particularly think of, we do an event called the Massage [00:30:00] ATIs, where we put three people to a massage table. So it's really sexy, but it's not sex.
So there's not, um, a goal of getting to orgasm. Penetration is not part of it, and there can be genital touching, but it's not the focus. Mm-hmm. And what happens when we get into that energy where we're more into like the therapeutic, the connection, the, the steam and the. Is we, we learn, you actually can like stop there.
Actually, it's a really beautiful place to hang out. Um, a lot of tantra talks about this, you know, like being in like this more like juicy, sexy energy than in the pursuit of something.
Ellecia: Hmm. And
Jamie: what that energy was before I try it out for myself, I, I really recommend trying, you know, some tantra or some kink or something that gets more into sensation play than into just sex because it is.
It is mind blowing, especially if you're really sensual like I am. [00:31:00] Um, there was a, one of these I went to, it was a massage, and I just, I felt full, I felt satisfied and I knew what it was in that moment, maybe for the first time ever to know this is what it's like to feel desire. This is what it's like to feel like I got what I needed and to stop, you know, to not need to have a clean plate.
This is me stopping when I'm full.
Ellecia: Mm.
Jamie: And there was somebody in the room who, you know, for whatever reason was just like, I'm so frustrated that this event doesn't allow sex. 'cause I'm so ready to just have sex with people and imply that I was one of the people that I wanted to have sex with. And I was like, I am so grateful.
I am so thankful that that is just not even on the table today. 'cause I have zero interest in that. Like, you seem like a really cool person. I might be open to that in the future. But right now, I absolutely don't want that. And if not for the fact that it was an official event that [00:32:00] had, you know, this, this what we call a container, you know, like mm-hmm.
We, we, mm-hmm. Degrees of what's gonna happen within the space. If I hadn't existed and that same energy had been thrown my way, where something went, I wanna have sex now, it's very likely I would've said yes. Because I didn't feel empowered enough to say no when I was outside of that safe area. So it's like, you know, it's like training wheels, like it gives you space to like really, really feel protected and like you can be in your yes no, maybe, and you know, things are not just gonna happen because for me, I can get a little frozen and sometimes I don't have an answer.
And my answer is, I just wanna stand here and think about it for a while. Um. I didn't have the ability to say those words to people for a long time, and sometimes things just start happening and that's the way that our culture has built things for people. So, mm-hmm. Being in a culture where verbal consent is the norm brought me to a [00:33:00] place where I could actually do verbal consent, I could participate in it, to the point where now when I'm.
Flirting with someone, I can be a lot more explicit. Like, these are my nonverbals. You know, it's easy for me to speak up if something gets uncomfortable or if something's a little uncomfortable, I'm probably gonna hang with it for a while to see if I can get into it. And some people are not comfortable with that.
Some people are. And that also, you know who I should and should not be playing with. Yeah. So, um. Yeah, it, it was a game changer in terms of being a people pleaser. 'cause I was just, you know, my, my mother would always say I'm a doormat. People just walk all over me. And I definitely internalized some of that, like, um, noble, you know, like if, if you're working really hard, there's a lot of like nobility to that and, um, to be able to remove that idea and say, my wants, needs and desires are important.
And if I am giving up something to give it to somebody else. They should know, you know, that [00:34:00] shouldn't be a secret that I'm, I'm overextending myself for somebody, like, I want them to appreciate it or even tell me, oh, I, I don't actually want that. You have to do that for me.
Ellecia: Yeah.
Jamie: It's like there's less resentment and less of me exhausting myself.
So that culture of consent just, it, it has really changed my life.
Ellecia: Yeah. Yeah. Same. Thank you so much for sharing that story. Be, and it's so relatable for me because I very similarly. Have so many times went I'm a little uncomfortable, but like, I might get into it or it's probably fine or it's too late to speak up.
Like it'll be fine. I don't hate everything, but I'm also not a hundred percent on board. And I, um, having been around people who, who use so much explicit consent and language and going through trainings like this and, and classes like that, um, I went from. I actually in the last couple of years started practicing this at like swingers events where in the past I, you know, like the [00:35:00] goal was like, let's do the sex.
And I was like, but actually I'm not, that's not what I wanna do. I like the energy of flirtation and kissing and touching, and I like desire and stating that desire isn't actually satisfying. Like, like, and so I, I started playing with, I was like, oh my gosh, I can like, make out with people and be really excited.
Explicit with them upfront, like, Hey, we're probably not gonna have intercourse, but I would really love to like use magic fingers and make your penis get big and hard. That's real fun. And then I'm gonna jet, I'm gonna be outta here. Someone else can play with that, but I'm gonna go do it again with someone else.
And that like changed swingers events for me in such a huge way that I was just getting the energy and giving also the energy that like felt really juicy and good. And not doing the things that I wasn't actually into. Yeah. And I got really good reception with that. Like, like I had people going, yeah.
That's amazing. That's hot. Thank you. I know, like I, they got a fluffer for, for someone else. [00:36:00]
Jamie: I love that also is you're just like, no, this is like a hundred percent my Yes. 'cause there's also that thing of like, if we're not getting to penis in pussy, like something bad happened, we didn't get to the end of the, I'm, I'm here for the pleasure.
I'm, I'm here to play and do things that are fun. And, you know, in, in sex positive world, one of our, uh, big sayings is pleasure is for everyone. Uh, and not orgasms are for everyone. I mean, I, we all, I love orgasms, but it's a, I'm a fan. Pleasure can also be a delicious meal. It can be a, a conversation, it can be feeling like you have, be connected with somebody.
It can be, you know, a beach cleanup so that we all have a nice clean beach to go to. Like pleasure is a much larger concept than sex and such an important aspect of sex. And you can have sex that is not pleasurable. So how do we be of pleasure instead of in the pursuit of the orgasm?
Ellecia: [00:37:00] Yes. Yes. I love that.
Yeah, it's so good, so good. Um, let, uh, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you want to share?
Jamie: Hmm. Um, I, I just wanna invite people to come check out Sex Positive World. Um, so I, I sit in a couple interesting chairs because I'm the executive director of Sex Positive Portland. So here in Portland, Oregon, it's, it's our social club.
It's where we do all of these different events that I've talked about, like the cuddle parties, the sex ed. Um, the massage nights, the sex possible parties. We're in a bunch of different cities though. So I first got introduced to sex positivity when I was in Southern California. So we have a pretty huge chapter based out of Los Angeles and expanding beyond that, 'cause we realized that there's people all over California who wanna take part in this.
Um, we're also in Utah. We're in Belgium, we're in [00:38:00] Singapore, we are in the Seattle area. And Olympia like, there's like there's local people all over the place who are sex positive and into this culture that we're building. I mentioned that we do some classes explicitly awesome boundaries. I. The other classes that we teach include an introduction to sex positivity and how we do things in sex positive world.
Um, there is the pleasure talk, which is what you need to actually cover when you're wanting to have an experience with somebody, whether that's sexual or kinky or something different. Uh, these are all interactive where you actually get to practice with other participants. And then the last one is called Sexy Intersections.
This one is about identities. So we're talking about oppression and that relationship that it has to our sexuality. Like how do I feel about myself? How do others treat me in the dating world so that when I go to a party, like do I see bodies that are representative of me, like I'm a white woman who's, uh, pansexual.
There is a ton of [00:39:00] representation of me, my body, and my style out there when I go looking at things that are. Sexy, or when I'm looking at like lingerie, like I'll find that there's a lot of folks out there that have identities and they're not gonna see that out there. Like we don't see as many like wheelchair users in our sexuality spaces like that is changing.
Um, but it's an important thing to talk about because we can desexualize people and then they don't have access to pleasure because no one's talking to them. So these are the classes that we offer so that we have a starting point. So there's not like. Well, you didn't get verbal consent before you touched me.
This, that actually breaks the rules of our community. So we have a way to deal with that as opposed to like, well, I thought that you wanted it so it happened, right? So build this structure that lets us actually experiment in person. So I would say if I'm speaking your language and you're like, I wanna go to a cuddle party, I wanna check this out.
We might be in your city or have a chapter in your city. And um, I also teach [00:40:00] people. How to facilitate these spaces. A lot of people do. Um, but how to actually facilitate the spaces and do the community building, it's, it's really worth it. You have to have a lot of grace for the fact that people are people and they do human things and they make mistakes, but, um, it's really, really worth it because that's also beautiful to be in a space with all of those people.
So I would say that that would be my big thing for everybody to say, come check it out. It's, it's, uh, all on a sliding scale. It's really worth learning about. Um, a lot of folks who have children do come to our classes, especially as their kids, uh, start hitting teenage years. 'cause none of us in America really got great sex education, especially queer inclusive sex education.
Um, pleasure based. As opposed to fear-based because mm-hmm. A little bit of knowledge goes a long way. Yeah. So I, I would, I would just say like, come check out what we have to offer and if poly topia sounds good to you, come out to poly [00:41:00] topia because it's a good, really, really amazing event. And so this amazing thing happens when you get people in a space for a couple days, is like you keep landing on each other and seeing each other, and then you have a meals together, you see each other in a workshop, and you've built a friendship for life or maybe found a potential partner or meta more.
So go to these types of events and find
Ellecia: folks. Yeah. Yes, yes. How can people find, uh, tickets Toia? Mm-hmm.
Jamie: Uh, they can go to sex positive portland.org/poly topia 2025. You can find it. Um, if you look for poly topia on Facebook or Instagram or Google, we'll probably pop right up.
Ellecia: Yeah. Amazing. And then if they wanna get involved with, uh, sex Positive World, uh, how do they do that?
Jamie: Uh, sex positive world.org.
Ellecia: Perfect. Amazing. This is so good. I am, I personally am so, so, so excited for poly topia this year. Uh, it's [00:42:00] gonna be great. I actually, uh, my partner and I learned a really fun oral sex trick. Thing AC activity, uh, at poly topia last year that we use fairly regularly. And, um, it, it was a lot of fun.
And I, uh, I'll talk about that, uh, in our, uh, Patreon segment. Just the tip. Um,
Jamie: nice at
Ellecia: patreon.com/notmonogamous. Um, but thank you so much, so much for being here. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, so for our, our Patreon segment, I do wanna ask you one more question, and it is, can you give us a favorite or best sex tip?[00:43:00]
That's amazing. Alright, uh, thank you so much for being here. This is, uh, again, and this has been absolutely
Jamie: wonderful. Yeah. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Come to poly topia everybody. September 19th through 21.
Ellecia: Yay. I told you Jamie brings the juicy truth. I love this conversation so much. The honesty, the nerdy consent talk, the reminder that building community is essential and rewarding work.
If you wanna hear Jamie's just the tip, their favorite sex tip, plus what I learned at Poly topia last year, head over to patreon.com/notmonogamous patreon.com/not monogamous. That's where I share all the bonus goodies that didn't make it into the public feed. And as always, thank you for listening. Bye.