Polyamorous Elders: Planning for Your Future Ep. 79
Intrigued by polyamory but unsure how it translates to long-term relationships? Especially as we age?
Today, we're venturing into the world of thriving polyamory in your golden years. Joining us is the amazing Kathy Labriola, a therapist, nurse, and author who's been living the poly life for 50 years! Kathy is author of four books on consensual nonmonogamy: Love in Abundance: A Counselor's Advice on Open Relationships, One of my fav's , rThe Jealousy Workbook, The Polyamory Break-up Book: Causes, Survival,
Kathy's new book, "Polyamorous Elders," tackles the unique joys and challenges of navigating polyamory as we mature. We'll be diving deep into communication, legal considerations, and even keeping your sex life sizzling!
Whether you're a seasoned polyamorist or curious newcomer, this episode offers invaluable insights for building strong, fulfilling connections as you age.
Get ready to learn about:
The surprising benefits of polyamory for older adults.
Essential communication tools to avoid misunderstandings.
Strategies for navigating jealousy in poly relationships.
Planning for your future, legally and financially.
And fostering new forms of intimacy as your life changes.
Ready to explore the vibrant world of polyamory at any age? Buckle up and join our conversation with Kathy Labriola!
For more from Kathy, visit her website at
Do you feel like you could use some help with your relationships?
Get on a free call with Ellecia to see how she can help you move through the challenges of jealousy, fear, anxiety, and insecurities in a way that strengthens your relationships, deepens your trust, and communication, and leaves you feeling confident.
https://elleciapaine.com/call
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Credits
- Host/Producer: Ellecia Paine
- Editor/Producer: Danny Walters
- Hosted on Buzzsprout
Transript:
Ellecia: 0:14
Hey, I'm Ellecia, your non-monogamous relationship coach. Welcome to the podcast where my friends and I chat about our relationships, enthusiastic, non-monogamy polyamory, swinging kink, and our lives. You'll get a candid peek into what makes it worth it to live life outside the box. And in case you're still wondering, nope, we're not monogamous, intrigued by polyamory, but unsure how it translates to long-term relationships, especially as we age. Today we're venturing into the world of thriving polyamory in your golden years.
Ellecia: 1:01
Joining me is the amazing kathy labriola. She's a therapist, a nurse and an author who's been living the polyamorous lifestyle for 50 years. Kathy's the author of four books on consensual, non-monogamy love and abundance, a counselor's advice onhips, one of my absolute favorites, the Jealousy Workbook, the Polyamory Breakup Book, and Kathy's new book, polyamorous Elders, tackles the unique joys and challenges of navigating polyamory as we mature. So we're going to dig into some communication, legal considerations and even keeping your sex life sizzling Really, just like planning for the future or for right now, depending on where you're at. So whether you're a seasoned polyamorous or a curious newcomer, this episode is going to give you lots of value and insights for building strong, fulfilling connections as we age.
Ellecia: 1:55
So get ready to learn about the surprising benefits of polyamory for older adults, the essential communication tools you need to avoid misunderstandings, some strategies for navigating jealousy in your polyamorous relationships, planning for your future, like the legal and financial things that you need. All right, let's do this. I hope you enjoy this episode. Amazing, amazing. Like I said, I'm really, really excited to have you here. I'm really excited to meet you you. So I talk about my my own journey on the podcast a lot, but the big thing is jealousy, and the jealousy workbook was like pivotal for me.
Kathy: 2:36
It was so so so important, great, great, I'm so glad. A lot of useful.
Ellecia: 2:41
Yeah, so so, so helpful. So so thank you for being here. You're amazing.
Kathy: 2:49
Well, thank you, I'm really delighted to hear that the book is useful and, as I always say about that book, you know there's lots and lots of different exercises and techniques and things in it and most people will find three or four out of the whole book that are really useful to them, and it's going to be a different three or four for each person. So I just put them all in there because all of them are useful to someone. But I tell people, just skim through and look, pick a few that sound like they're likely to be useful, and just you know. You can forget the rest until maybe at some later point you might find them useful for a different situation.
Ellecia: 3:24
Yeah, yeah, totally. And actually that's funny, I've done that. I've gone back through it multiple times where I'm like, oh, this is, this is what's happening and is relevant to me right now.
Kathy: 3:36
Yeah, I think sometimes people will start at the beginning and read each chapter carefully and then it might take them a while to get to something that actually is useful to them, and usually when you're having a jealousy meltdown or attack or something you know, you need help right away and you don't need to be reading through 10 chapters that are like going to be better used by someone else uh-huh, now I go back.
Ellecia: 3:56
I have it on my kindle and so I go back and look at what I highlighted. I just click on my highlights and I'm like oh, there we go, that's the thing, that's what I needed.
Kathy: 4:06
Or probably you go back and see what you highlighted and said, oh, I don't even need that anymore because I'm so advanced now I'm beyond that. So that's kind of good to be able to see your progress over over time.
Ellecia: 4:16
Uh-huh, uh-huh totally, totally, um, I also. You have a new book and congratulations on your new book.
Kathy: 4:26
Uh, polyamorous elders yes, that is a relatively a new book. It came out at the beginning of last year uh about, uh, older people practicing polyamory, and I think it's really useful for older people to see themselves reflected in the media, since so much of the time when you see anything about non-monogamy it seems like it's glamorous young people in their 20s who are trying this for the first time. And you know, it's a very different experience with aging and so many of the people that I interviewed for the book have been in polyamorous relationships for 30, 40, 50 years or more, so they have a lot of experience that could be hopefully useful to younger people so they won't have to make the same mistakes we did. You can make new and more creative mistakes of your own.
Ellecia: 5:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I. Uh, I was thinking about it and um, I was like polyamorous elders, like what, what? What qualifies as an elder?
Kathy: 5:30
55, 55 and above. Okay, okay, all right, I I used that in the book because 55 is when the federal government and doctors and the healthcare system and everybody decides that you are officially old at 55. You are no longer middle-aged. Sorry to break it to those people listening to this who may not realize that they are officially considered old, and for most people that's when they start experiencing things that are related to aging, whether they're thinking about retiring from careers. Their parents are getting ill and disabled and possibly needing care and possibly dying. They are potentially experiencing some health problems of their own and a lot of things are happening in their lives that are related to aging.
Kathy: 6:25
But to confuse things further, you know there are two generations of elders. One is that you know 55 to 75 age group group age group that is, the so-called baby boomers that were born after World War II, from 1948 to 1964. But there is still an older generation. I call the older elders who. They were born during the Great Depression, in the 1930s, and lived through the Great Depression and World War II and a lot of other things. They were born and raised in a much, much, much more conservative era than the baby boomers. The baby boomers were kind of the drug, lived through World War II and all that. They had very different lives and the older elders were much more likely to live to have had very conservative lives and gotten married and had children when they were young and then maybe became polyamorous later on gosh, that's um.
Ellecia: 7:40
As you're saying that I was like man, are there a lot of non-monogamous and polyamorous folks who are like over 75?
Kathy: 7:47
yes, a lot. There are definitely a lot more in the 55 to 75 year old group. Just because the one, the folks that are over 75, a lot of them, if they were polyamorous, if they have beenamorous, one of their partners has died by now and so they may be monogamous by default because at age 79 or 80, if they had two partners, or even three, one or two of those partners has probably died by now. Yeah, one or two of those partners has probably died by now. Yeah, yeah. So many are what I describe in the book as monogamous by default, just because they're not exactly thinking about going out and dating at, you know, 84. They've got other concerns that are a little more pressing and if they have one partner, they're pretty happy with that at this point in their lives partner.
Ellecia: 8:39
They're pretty happy with that at this point in their lives. Yeah yeah, amazing, amazing.
Kathy: 8:50
I just hit the you must go get a mammogram. Age, aha, okay.
Ellecia: 8:51
You must be 40. 45.
Kathy: 8:52
45. Oh, that's right, they raised it. I'm a nurse, I'm a nurse by trade and I know previously it was 40. Now they've raised it to 45. So you don't need to be exposed to that extra radiation at an early age when you're not likely to have breast cancer. Thank goodness.
Ellecia: 9:04
Yep, yep, yep, yep. My gynecologist had this whole conversation about why we do it at this age versus that age all the risks. It's really lovely, really lovely, good good. I was like man. Am I an elder? Yet I got 10 more years though.
Kathy: 9:19
Right, no, no, you know, the mammogram means you're officially middle-aged. Yep, sorry to break it to you.
Ellecia: 9:26
That and my optometrist was like, I'm afraid to tell you you have this thing called dry eye that affects middle-aged women.
Kathy: 9:33
Ah, ha, ha, ha, yeah, ha ha.
Ellecia: 9:37
This is how it goes, all right.
Kathy: 9:42
Well, look at it this way. And when I turned 45, I decided oh, maybe I'm at the midpoint now. Maybe, if I live to be 90, I'm 45. I'm halfway there. I've got a whole half of my life ahead of me.
Ellecia: 9:57
And all the wisdom and mistakes.
Kathy: 10:01
Because you're younger and with advances in medical science and you probably have better nutrition and all those things. You probably live to be 100.
Ellecia: 10:06
I hope so. I hope so. Amazing. So I wonder what, when someone's my age and looking ahead to being polyamorous, like I have three partners and I have three kids and you know what, what should I be looking ahead to? Like as a like, as a polyamorous person, that that will stay polyamorous? I anticipate what what kind of things are does. Does the polyamory affect as you're aging?
Kathy: 11:51
Well, one very kind of dry, boring thing but really important is, especially because you have kids, is to make sure you have all of the appropriate documents in place, like your will and your directives to physician that tells your doctor who you want to make decisions for you when and if you are in a coma or something or have some reason why you don't get hit by a car God forbid and you can't make decisions for yourself.
Kathy: 12:25
You want because that's important for everyone, especially for poly people, because it's not usually someone we're married to or have a blood relationship with that we want to make those decisions for us. So that's pretty important to have that directive to physicians in place. That directive also tells your doctor whether you want to be intubated or resuscitated or what kind of medical procedures you do and don't want, which is pretty important since you know there are a lot of medical procedures that they will force on you if you haven't specifically said you don't want them as you get older. Obviously you're not old yet, thank goodness for you but as you get older, that's very important and it's pretty important to think about that now and talk it through. As to, you know what you do and don't want.
Kathy: 13:15
As I said, being a former intensive care unit nurse for almost 20 years, believe me, I've seen some terrible things happen to people that they didn't want. You know, which they could have avoided if they had something in writing. So you know, particularly if you have two or three in your case three partners you know you want to decide, is one person the most ideal person to make those decisions, particularly if they are a medical professional, or if there's someone who will not be clustered in that situation and will not faint in the hospital at the sight of blood, things like that he's my best practical partner.
Kathy: 13:51
Right. It's not the person necessarily who's like your most primary partner. It's the person who's going to be the best at helping out in those situations. Naturally, you want the other people to weigh in as well, but in my case in particular you know now my parents have passed away, but they were whacked out born-again Christians, so you can imagine I did not want them making decisions for me in any way, shape or form. So it was very important to me to get those documents in place, and that's also very important because if you are, you or one of your partners is in the hospital, you may not have the right to visit them.
Kathy: 14:27
They may not have the right to visit you unless they're named specifically in that document. And I have experienced that which one of my partners almost died from a brain tumor and was on the operating table for nine hours having brain surgery, came out of brain surgery and went into the ICU and was in a life and death situation. They would not let me into the ICU unless until I produced that document that said I'm the person who has durable power of attorney. I'm the person see, my name is on here. So even in that situation you know they were refusing to let me into the ICU because I'm not a blood relative, nor was I legally married to that person.
Kathy: 15:08
So I can tell you from personal experience. That's pretty important, and having a will is very important If you have obviously you have children. You want to make sure your children are taken care of. You want to make sure you name who is going to get custody for children if something happens to you. Make sure you name who is going to get custody for children if something happens to you. That's particularly difficult in a poly situation, because if you have three partners, you can't be legally married to all of them, and so they would have no rights of any kind to any custody, unless you specifically name them as people.
Kathy: 15:42
You want to be co-guardians of your children. Who do you want to be in charge of your finances if, for some reason, you could not make financial decisions? And again, it's not the person who's your primary partner, necessarily. It's the person who understands finances and who is at least as likely to make good decisions financially as you are. So you want to pick someone who really is the right person for that job anyway.
Kathy: 16:12
That's this, this, this paperwork, is very important, and I I do have a chapter in the book about it and about the different documents that are are useful, but beyond that, just having verbal or written agreements that are not legally binding in any way but are between yourselves, about what you each expect of each other and what you want to happen in the event of, say, one relationship dissolving dissolving.
Kathy: 16:48
You know it's important to have those agreements, particularly for like three or four people who I don't know if in your case, but many, you know triads or quads are living together and each person I've seen many triads where each of those three people had very different ideas about what was going to happen if somebody, if one of them, broke up, if one relationship broke up. Who's going to move out and who's going to stay, who actually owns the house or is on the lease, if you're renting? You know all of these things are pretty important and people do generally behave better in a breakup situation if it should happen, if they have made specific agreements in advance rather than just well, I sort of remember we may have talked about it 10 years ago, but I don't remember what we decided.
Ellecia: 17:33
You said we'd be together forever. This was never going to happen.
Kathy: 17:39
Right and you know, in many cases the breakup never does happen, hooray, but sometimes it does. And I think I always tell people it's really important to make those kinds of agreements before you move in together. Or if you're a couple and someone's moving in with you as a couple, or if two or three people are moving in together all at once. It's difficult because at that moment you're in the flush of we're madly in love, we're becoming a family, we're moving in together again. You're not thinking about you know, someday we might break up. So it's hard to think about those things at that time. But it's much better to make those decisions before you move in to find out do you have like compatible ideas about that and even decisions about living together, like who's responsible for what and finances? Are you going to keep all each person going to keep their money separate? Are you going to merge your finances completely together and throw it all in one pot, which a lot of poly families use? You know they have a house checking account for the house and each person puts part of their salary in that, part of their income in that, but the rest you keep for yourself, you know, and use it for whatever you want. So people have very different ideas and values around money and around things like that. It's pretty important to get those things worked out before you move in at any age, but especially as you age.
Kathy: 19:11
I've seen a lot of poly families break up who are older, and break up because of issues directly related to aging, such as I've seen a lot of families where one person in the household, their elderly parent, needed care and they of course made the assumption my mother will move in with us and my poly family, we will all take care of her and we will support her financially.
Kathy: 19:43
And the other people said, well, wait, we never signed up for this, we never agreed to that, you know.
Kathy: 19:49
Or, conversely, I've seen many situations where someone's adult children. The adult child loses a job and needs to move in with mom or dad, or the adult child goes through a divorce and she wants to move in with mom, with the grandkids, and of course, that mom says, of course, I'm going to take in my daughter and the grandkids. And the other people in the house say, no, we never agreed to support your daughter financially or let her, the kids live here and, furthermore, we've all raised our kids and we do not want, you know, a two-year-old in the house anymore. So talk about those things before you move in together. Or, if you haven't't before you move it in together, do it now before you face a situation where you have an elderly relative with dementia and you haven't made an agreement about whether your poly partners are going to take that person into the home with them or are they going to pay for the care if that person needs to be cared for in a dementia facility or something like that.
Ellecia: 20:58
People make assumptions that end up causing them to be very angry and bitter and sometimes end up breaking up the whole family yeah, yeah, yeah yeah that makes so much sense, and it's definitely not something that I hear talked about very much, because, yeah, we just everyone has different ideas of family and community and how you're supposed to take care of people.
Kathy: 21:19
10 or 15 years you easily could, or even people in your age group in the 30s and 40s. I've seen families break up because somebody had a sibling who lost a job or was on drugs or was homeless and they said, well, of course we're going to take in my brother. And the other people said, no, he's a drug addict with anger management issues. No, we don't want him living here. We didn't grow up with him and we didn't agree to this. So it can happen when you're younger, but it's much more likely as you get older that you're going to have adult children down on their luck or elderly relatives who are disabled and needing care.
Ellecia: 22:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm actually. Yeah, my parents are older and my stepdad has Alzheimer's, and so we're navigating all of that and going okay, what's going to happen? What's going to happen in the next couple of years, in the next five years, 10 years, who knows? Got to figure that out.
Kathy: 22:27
Yeah, my mother had dementia for 12 years. Yeah, that's a long time, and you you know you're talking like long-term planning and that's something that is is really very tough, and so you have my sympathy and empathy, because I've been through it.
Ellecia: 22:44
Thank you. Thank you, yeah. Yeah, it's definitely.
Kathy: 22:49
I love that you're saying that people should talk about that, because I I don't even know that people talk about that when they're monogamous they don't often so many assumptions are made uh-huh, but I think uh, I do think monogamous couples that are in a much more traditional relationship are more likely to be on the same page with saying okay, we've been married for 40 years, your mother has been my mother-in-law all that time, she's a member of my family and I would, of course, take her in and take care of her.
Kathy: 23:22
And traditional monogamous couples are much more likely to 100% merge their money together, and so they're much more likely to say, well, it's our money, not your money, and so of course we're going to spend it to take care of your mother. You know so. Or or your adult or our adult children, you know it's much more likely to be our adult children that are needing to be taken in and taken care of. So it I think monogamous couples certainly can end up getting divorced over something like this too, but it's less likely just because they're much more likely to have shared assumptions than a poly family.
Ellecia: 23:58
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kathy: 24:00
This is amazing and it's just more likely that two people will be on the same page than three or four.
Ellecia: 24:05
It's a lot easier to sway someone in your direction if there's not a lot of them.
Kathy: 24:11
You can lobby them yeah.
Ellecia: 24:15
It's like watching I'm picturing, like was it Survivor, when you had to get people on your side and we're going to boat them off the island?
Kathy: 24:24
I hadn't even thought of that. Yet Polycool as the Survivor I hadn't even thought of that.
Ellecia: 24:38
Amazing, amazing, amazing, amazing. Um you mentioned that that you're, you've been a nurse and a counselor and I'm curious how that like being in the health care profession has, um, how has that like impacted how you, how you approach polyamory and how you talk to people about it. Like, like, it sounds like you have like a very strong like from the, from a medical perspective, of like here's a long term, what can happen?
Kathy: 24:59
yeah, yes, definitely, it certainly has influenced me, just because I've seen you know so much, go on with people, uh, who you know are in the hospital and people, a lot of sort of laypersons, who don't have a medical or nursing background, just aren't even aware of what kind of medical treatments could await them that they may not want or that they may want and may want to lobby for and ask for and want to be informed about. So, yeah, I really do encourage people to learn as much as you can about aging and illness and disability.
Kathy: 25:36
As much as those are not sexy, glamorous topics, they are going to impact you, either your parents or yourself eventually, and your partners, and it's one of those things too. That is a major strength of polyamory with aging is that I have talked to so many people who have said, wow, when we got into this polyamory, non-nogamy thing 40 or 50 years ago, we were in it for the excitement, the sex, the romance, the adventure, the transgressive, just in your face. Look at us doing something so crazy kind of aspect to it. A lot of people said, wow, that was where we got into it. We weren't thinking at the time gee, it's going to be great, 40 years from now, when one of my partners is disabled and sick, that I have a metamor or two to help take care of them. We weren't really thinking about that.
Kathy: 26:35
But wow, that's a real benefit to polyamory in old age. You have more people to help you take care of one member who gets sick. You also have more people with more incomes, which is very, very important as you age, when people start retiring or being forced out of jobs, since there is a lot of age discrimination and there's a lot of pressure to push older people out of jobs because they have higher salaries, because they've been in the company for 30 years, they have more benefits and all that. So suddenly, when people start retiring or getting pushed out of their jobs or fired, laid off whatever, or become disabled and forced to have to leave a profession, suddenly your income is much less, is much less. And so if you've got several people in the polycule, even if you may only have one partner or even two partners your partners have partners there are more people to help out. Even if you're not living together as a group, there are a lot more people to share and help financially if needed. It's especially true if you live with, if, like three or four people are living together in one household and a lot of older poly people are living in duplexes, where it may be two couples sharing a duplex, or it may be a triad, where it's usually there's a woman at the center, two men and they each have an apartment in the duplex and the woman goes back and forth. But essentially you have one house that you're supporting and you have three incomes to support that house, so that's a big advantage, and usually one person is maybe a few years younger and is going to work more years and still have a higher income. Maybe a few years younger and is going to work more years and still have a higher income. Or one person who, even if they're not younger, still is working full-time.
Kathy: 28:39
I'm 70 and I'm still working full-time. I love my work. I don't see any reason to quit. If I were still working as a nurse, I would have had to retire because that's so physically draining, demanding, strenuous, I just couldn't do it at this age. But doing counseling, you know you do it sitting down, you know it doesn't require physical labor. So so yeah, so I'm still working full time, even though, you know, one of my partners is retired. So that's a big drop in income because one person is retired but the rest of us are working full time, so there's still a lot of income, whereas I've seen a lot of monogamous people who suddenly find they are in deep shit when one or both of them retires and they haven't. They don't have enough money to live on yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ellecia: 29:19
That is, um, a really good point, I think. I think there's something about being intentional with the idea of, like you're, you're building your community of people with, with a long view, like a future plan of you know like right now we're we're in love and everything's hot, but what is this going to look like in 10, 20, 30 years? And what's our plan? Is there a plan? How are we going to take care of each other?
Kathy: 29:44
that's so important well, and that that may or may not be your goal. I mean some. For some people, long term the long term is not the goal. For some people, the having exciting new love affairs is the goal, and that's fantastic too.
Kathy: 30:00
I don't mean to imply that everybody I don't mean to imply everybody wants to grow old together. You know, uh many. One of the great uh advantages polyamory is that you do get to have the best of both worlds. You do get to have the wonderful stability of maybe having a partner or spouse that you may be with for the rest of your life, but you get the excitement of falling in love or having just fabulous, you know love affairs that you know may not, you may not be that compatible with that person, or you know to, to even want to be together long term. So you don't have to be because you're not looking for like the one and only you're looking for, you know, fun and adventure and things like that, as well as stability. So sorry, but all this talk about growing old together and death and disability and all that, I didn't mean to imply that that's always the goal.
Ellecia: 30:52
Yeah, yeah, no, totally, totally, I think it. I don't think it's something that's talked about enough, because, um, because the focus is generally on like what's exciting and free and and and, and you know what's happening right now and being present, and so it actually the future doesn't get talked about enough. And like what, what could this, what is this going to look like later? Um, and I, I think it's important, even if it's just, this is only going to be short term, you know, even if that's the conversation, great, but like I think it should be happening more Definitely.
Kathy: 31:28
Well, and that's part of the reason I wrote the polyamory breakup book, which is another one of my books because it is inevitable that if you're polyamorous, you're going to have some breakups, you know, and that's okay.
Kathy: 31:41
You know. I think the monogamous people are on this relationship escalator where you know, you date, you get serious, you live together, you get married. You're expecting you know to be permanent, whereas with polyamory, you are expecting it to be permanent. Whereas with polyamory, if we're going to have numerous partners, not all of those partners are likely to be 100% compatible with us for a long-term relationship. Or even if they're very compatible with us right now or for the next 10 years, we may be in a very different stage of our life or they may be in a different phase of their life where we no longer are compatible. So a big know, a big part of the reason I wrote the polyamory breakup book is that I want people in poly relationships not to see breakups as like a big failure, but to see it as this is an inevitable part of being non-monogamous and find a way to do it graciously and with some ethics and kindness and love, so that you don't have to become enemies, and often, even in the Polly Ulzer's book, the people I interviewed, particularly gay men and lesbians, their former partners and ex-lovers were, know, part of their family, very key people in terms of taking care of each other in old age and helping each other financially.
Kathy: 33:24
Especially true of lesbians just because women not because they're lesbians, but because they're women you know, we don't make as much money as the men.
Kathy: 33:31
You know, I know that's not exactly a newsflash, we all know that, but if you've got two women in a relationship versus a woman and a man in a relationship, or two men in a relationship, those women are likely to be poor.
Kathy: 33:41
Lesbian couples are much more likely than anyone else to be poor. So having your ex-lovers and more current lovers with more income, that's a big plus in those situations. But keep you know if you can and if you want to keep those ex-partners as part of your friendship group, as part of your family system, especially true for queer people in my age group, elders, because our families completely rejected us for being gay. We were never most gay people in my age group. We were never able to have relationships with our families of origin because they completely rejected us for being gay, so we need our ex-lovers to be part of it. That has become more of the family than is true for straight people, who usually have stronger relationships with, say, siblings and parents, and you know if they need financial help or if they're sick and need to be taken care of. You know queer people in my age group could never count on that for their own families of origin, for helping them in those situations.
Ellecia: 34:53
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It makes sense to, to, to, yeah. Talking about breakups, the thing that comes to mind for me is like leave the campsite better than you found it Right. That's how you maintain your, your community, you maintain family and people who have been with you in your life.
Kathy: 35:14
That's a. That's a good way of putting it. Yes, Clean up that campsite a little, any trash that someone else left before you.
Ellecia: 35:21
Yep, yep, make sure you put the fire out before you get to bed.
Kathy: 35:28
True, very true.
Ellecia: 35:30
Amazing, amazing. Before I hit record, we were talking about the, the non-monogamy week of visibility. Is that what it's called? No, I'm not, not the week.
Kathy: 35:42
Yes, yeah, uh, I think, yes uh.
Kathy: 35:47
Week of visibility for non-monogamy uh, yes it it started, uh, last year as the day of Visibility Day of Non-Monogamous Visibility and now it called Open O-P-E-N. So acrimonorg, and you can go to their website and they have announcements on there of every city, that every place that there's any kind of event going on, and there are lots of them all over the country. Some places are just having like one event, others are having like a whole week's worth of events and it's just a way that we can show people that we do exist and that we are not like drooling psychopaths and it's a lot of the events they're having are very like family friendly, with picnics and children's activities, things like that. So we're just trying to, you know, present a more comprehensive picture of who polyamorous people are than we usually see or hear about in the media, which seems like always just focused on sex and the sexual aspect, which is important but not really the main event.
Ellecia: 37:23
Not the thing we're using for a promotion. There's so many in-person events. There's also virtual events where people are doing uh q a's and and uh panels. There's picnics and wine nights and game nights.
Kathy: 37:43
It's happening, a lot of stuff happening. It's fun. So, yeah, participate in in person, virtually or however you want to. Uh, you know, open is a good group to be in touch with. Uh, there's another group here in California that I'm very involved in, polyactive, and that group is called Polyactive because we are political activists.
Kathy: 38:05
Oakland, california, both Oakland and Berkeley, now have passed ordinances that prohibit discrimination against people in polyamorous relationships. It prohibits discrimination in employment, in housing, in education, in public services, because previously to these ordinances being passed, it was perfectly legal to fire us for being polyamorous or kick us out of our housing or refuse to rent to us or refuse to provide housing, and it is perfectly legal in almost all places to discriminate against us. And our ordinance is based on the gay rights ordinances that I personally was involved in during the 1970s in getting passed Very similar, because at the time it was perfectly legal to fire people for being gay and to refuse to rent to them or kick them out of their housing for being gay and things like that. So it's a very similar thing. All we're asking for is to be treated like other human beings and not discriminated against based on who we happen to be. You know, treated like other human beings and not discriminated against based on who we happen to be in a relationship with.
Ellecia: 39:41
Yeah, yeah, amazing. Thank you so much for all the work that you've done to to to help with the the shift in in how people are being treated in how people are being treated. Oh, telephone, yeah Telephone.
Kathy: 39:58
And hey, I can tell anyone to. I could advise anyone get involved in these various poly groups. A great place to meet girlfriends, boyfriends, any kind of partners. If you're looking, so get involved in these groups. Where else are you going to meet tons of fabulous, attractive poly people?
Ellecia: 40:15
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love this. Weekofvisibilitycom is the website for the Week of Visibility for Non-Monogamy, and at the top it says together we can normalize non-monogamy. And I just I love it so much because that's, that's entirely. All I've been trying to do is like, look at us, normal people having normal lives and just like normal challenges and, like you know, experiencing things that everybody else experiences.
Kathy: 40:43
It's all fine, although I would hate to be normal.
Ellecia: 40:45
Wow, that's true I just want normal to change, right, right, normal let's expand what's considered normal.
Kathy: 40:54
Yeah, over the years I've had so many people say to me things like, um, that that some people might think are insulting but that I think are hilarious. I think like, well, you know you have this real weirdo lifestyle. You have this real, you know, bizarre sexual and romantic relationships, but you know you seem boring and mundane like everyone else. So I don't know if I should be insulted by being told that. Or somebody even said something like you have this really strange lifestyle and it's really weird. You're really kind of a weirdo but you seem sort of wholesome. That one upset me. I was like wholesome. When was I ever wholesome? That one upset me I was like wholesome. When was I ever wholesome?
Ellecia: 41:36
wow, I mean they meant it as a compliment, you know I love that so much, you know, and that's funny. That makes me think like I've uh, I've been really lucky in building this community around myself that is full of weirdos and people who like dress up as pirates and mermaids and go play naked in the woods and like, so for me, like that's just normal right.
Kathy: 42:01
Well, I think it's a little bit like, um, you know the. I know a lot of lesbian couples who, uh, we jokingly call the straight lesbians because they want to do what one of my ex-girlfriends called they want to out the heterosexuals. You know, they drive minivans, they have kids, they're in the PTA, they're soccer moms, they have the house with the white picket fence and the dog and they're just like straighter than the straights, and it's not that they're doing it to make a point, they just that's who they are. And so I just think we have to make room for people to be.
Kathy: 42:43
You know all shades of sort of wholesome, straight, mundane, boring, and all sorts of transgressive, and you know the mermaids in the woods thing, as you described, and you know the tattoos. And then you know drugs and all those other things that you know some of us enjoy and sex parties and all of that. You know some people are going to get married in. You know some polyamorous people are going to get married in a church, buy a minister and like, live in the white picket fence house. But we just have to make room for all of us under the big poly umbrella.
Ellecia: 43:18
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely. Let me ask you this Is there, could you give a piece of advice? What is something that anybody could do for free to have better or healthier relationships?
Kathy: 43:39
For poly folks you're talking about Mm-hmm, oh, okay, yeah. Well, there are lots of fantastic free resources Everything from polyamorous or consensually non-monogamous support groups, discussion groups, book groups. There are these like book clubs poly book clubs that read poly related books and then talk about all the great stuff in it and learn a lot from it. Most places have most major cities have polyamorous support groups that you can attend in person or virtually. There are quite a few right here in the Bay Area, where I'm sure there are quite a few in the Seattle area as well, and any major metropolitan area, like Facebook groups and other groups like that that you know, like there's groups that are for BIPOC people of color who are poly. There are groups for polymonocouples, like where one person is more monogamous, one person is more poly, to help each other get support from other people. There are online classes that are free Kitty Shambless.
Kathy: 44:58
She has a site called Loving Without Boundaries. I'm sure you're familiar with her. She does a free monthly class. That is really good. That is all about introducing you to polyamory and giving you some of the skill set. So all of those things are free. Whenever I do a workshop or class, I have a friend of mine, videotape it and put it on my website so that people can watch it for free. Because where I live and where I'm giving classes, there are a lot of these. We're sort of rich with these resources, but plenty of places you can't find classes like that. So I want them to be on my website so that people could just watch them for free, since they have no access, maybe in, you know, nebraska to that sort of class.
Ellecia: 45:42
Yeah, yeah, I love that. That's wonderful. I also have a Facebook group Nope, we're not monogamous Same as the podcast name where I where I do free classes as well. I think I think it's something that we should all be doing is just being able to give people resources and a place to look not only for information, but for building community and knowing that they're not alone and that there are other people out here doing the same things.
Kathy: 46:12
That's so helpful, yeah because so many people even if you're in a place like the bay area, where I am in san francisco area a lot of people have no poly friends or they've there's no one. They know it's not like they. You know they go to a workplace every day where there are no poly people. They go, you know, to their children's school and there are no poly people. They go, you know, to their children's school and there are no poly parents. You know they. Everywhere they go, there are no poly people. So you can get feeling very isolated and alone. And so, yeah, take advantage of these resources. You know, because there are lots of people out there. A lot of people just are very closeted or they're kind of. You know you're looking for a kind of needle in a haystack. So the more resources you can have, the more you can feel like a part of a community, the better. Yeah, absolutely.
Ellecia: 47:02
Absolutely. If people want to find your work, where do they find you?
Kathy: 47:09
I have a website, just kathylabriolacom, and there are a lot of videos and podcasts and stuff like that.
Kathy: 47:17
I've been, you know various interviews on the radio and things that I've posted there so people can watch them, listen to them if they want to, if they want more information on something, and I do often get emails from people saying, oh my gosh, I was having a poly crisis at 2am and I found your website and I found these articles and, oh, that really helped me. Or, you know, I have an article on one of the many articles that I have on there is called Are you in Polly hell? For some reason, that's the one that, more than any other article. I get these emails when I get up in the morning that have come in at like 3am saying, oh my God, I was having this huge meltdown and I saw this article and it just made so much sense and that helped me so good. So, there, there are tons of websites out there and resources out there, and definitely avail yourself of them.
Ellecia: 48:15
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I have, uh, I have one more question, and this one is not uh, it doesn't go on the main podcast. It's for our supporters of the show at patreoncom slash, not monogamous. Uh, and and, and. The segment is called just the tip and it's what is a favorite or a best sex tip that you could share, amazing, amazing, thank you. Thank you so much. This has been absolutely wonderful. You are a gem and a wealth of wisdom and I appreciate you so much.
Kathy: 48:57
Oh, you are too kind, thank you.
Ellecia: 49:02
And that was Kathy Labriola sharing her. Just the tip. If you missed it, you didn't get to hear that juicy sex tip Go, become a lover or a friend with benefits to the show at patreoncom slash not monogamous. When you become one of the Patreon supporters, you get access to a bunch of behind the scenes. Or a friend with benefits to the show at patreoncom slash not monogamous. When you become one of the Patreon supporters, you get access to a bunch of behind the scenes content, bonus content, things that we hold aside just for the community. If you become a friends with benefit, you also get a no poor, not monogamous mug, which is pretty dope. Thanks for listening today. I adore you. Bye.