Navigating Consent and Pleasure in Non-Monogamy with Jamie Love Ep. 80
This episode gives you a peek into the remarkable journey of Jamie Love, from a conservative religious background to leading a thriving, international sex-positive community, Sex Positive World. You'll hear how Jamie fosters spaces where people can explore intimacy and sexuality openly and shame-free.
Key Discussion Points:
The Power of Consent in Everyday Life: We explore the power of small consent practices like cuddle parties and massage nights for fostering healthy connections and healing pleasure disconnects.
Creating Safe Spaces for Exploration: Discover how Sex Positive World's legendary Hawaiian retreats create environments where people feel truly safe, seen, and free to reach new depths of pleasure and connection.
Building Healthy Relationships: We delve into Sex Positive World's orientation classes, where participants practice setting boundaries, saying no, and having those crucial (but sometimes awkward) conversations. Learn how Jamie emphasizes real transformation through supportive community.
Exploring Non-Monogamy: Whether you're curious about ethical non-monogamy or simply looking for a supportive community, this episode is for you!
In This Episode, You Will Learn:
The benefits of joining sex-positive communities.
How to ethically explore non-monogamy.
Tips for hosting inclusive massage parties.
Strategies for building a culture of consent in your relationships.
About the Polytopia Conference (where I’ll be a guest speaker) https://www.sexpositiveportland.org/events/9504
Meet Our Guest: Jamie Love
Jamie Love is the Executive Director of Sex Positive World (https://www.sexpositiveworld.org/), a global organization dedicated to spreading inclusive radical sex positivity and empowering individuals to build their own sex-positive communities. A self-identified ethical slut and non-monogamous person, Jamie teaches workshops ranging from
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Transcript:
Ellecia: 0:14
Hey, I'm Ellecia, your non-monogamous relationship coach. Welcome to the podcast where my friends and I chat about our relationships enthusiastic, non-monogamy polyamory, swinging kink and our lives. You'll get a candid peek into what makes it worth it to live life outside the box. And, in case you're still wondering, nope, we're not monogamous. Hey friends, I am so excited to share this episode with you.
Ellecia: 0:47
I have the absolute pleasure of chatting with Jamie Love, the executive director of Sex Positive World. Jamie has such an open, authentic presence and it truly felt like grabbing a cup of coffee with a close friend. You're about to hear Jamie's incredible journey from a conservative, religious upbringing to leading a thriving international sex positive community, and it's super inspiring to hear how they help create spaces where people can explore intimacy and sexuality without shame or judgment. Jamie talks about the power of small consent practices like cuddle parties and massage nights for healing pleasure disconnects, and they give us a glimpse into their organization's legendary Hawaiian retreats. When people feel truly safe, seen and free, the depths of pleasure and connection they can reach are really profound. Loved learning about sex positive worlds, orientation classes where folks like you and I can practice saying no and setting boundaries and having awkward but important conversations, and Jamie emphasizes that real transformation happens in community. Let me know which idea resonates the most for you in the comments.
Ellecia: 1:54
In this episode, you're going to discover some surprising and empowering benefits of joining sex positive communities and learn how to ethically explore non-monogamy and broaden your relationship horizons and uncover the secrets to hosting successful and inclusive massage or cuddle parties and build a culture of consent in your relationships for truly healthier connections. Plus, we talk about the Polytopia Conference that's coming up and how to connect with the polyamorous community. I hope you enjoy the episode. Show me that. Yes, please, thank you. Awesome, it's doing the things. Yay, okay, we like when it's doing the things.
Jamie: 2:33
Uh-huh, we like when it's doing the things.
Ellecia: 2:35
We like when it's doing the things. Uh-huh, we like when it's doing the things. So welcome to Nope, we're Not Monogamous. I'm so happy you're here. Okay, jamie, will you tell the listeners? Tell me, tell the listeners just a little something. Tell them who you are.
Jamie: 2:55
Okay, I'm Jamie Love. I am the executive director of Sex Positive World. We're a nonprofit and what we do is we provide education as well as community-building tools for people who want to have their own sex-positive communities. I also serve the community here in Portland Oregon as their executive director and what I do and what we do is workshops of all different types so around, like relationship discussions, cuddle parties, massage nights, self-pleasure circles. So I host them and I also teach other people how to do it. And in non-monogamy world, I'm definitely in the ethical slut, solo, poly, e&m end of the spectrum. So like teaching people how to do this and I say the community is my primary partner, which is very complicated. Yes, it's what I'm drawn to, it's my whole life and this is what I love doing. I teach people how to do this and I'm excited to talk more about it.
Ellecia: 3:54
I love that so much. I love that you okay 27 things. First of all, we need more sex positive communities and people to know how to be involved in them and how to interact and how to create them and how to access education and resources. So I love that you're doing that. I also love that. I don't know if you use the word that's coming to mind for me, the one that I use polyamorous slut.
Jamie: 4:23
Yeah, sure.
Ellecia: 4:24
Yeah, I love it Big fan that's definitely my relationship style. Um can. You said community. Your community is your primary partner. Yes, what does your freaking calendar look like?
Jamie: 4:44
Ah yes, so I don't have multiple individual partners that I have lots of like desire to be nesting with or you know, like making sure like there's a date every single day, there's a lot more events, a lot more organizing um a lot more meetings like this, like I invest a lot more in my queer relationships, so there's there's a it's a busy calendar, but also like there's self-care in there also.
Ellecia: 5:16
Yes, so good, so good. I love that. Have you been non-monogamous, or is it something that you came into?
Jamie: 5:23
No, I was raised in a conservative Christian household, as in my grandparents started the church where my school and church were, where my parents both served the church served the church.
Jamie: 5:36
So I believed in the only thing that I ever knew existed monogamy, being straight.
Jamie: 5:46
I had heard of gay people, I'd heard of trans people, but I hadn't necessarily met any of them until I was in my adulthood so I didn't even know it was a relationship style. I just thought you know, being somebody who's extremely sexual, that just like I was supposed to lock that down and just not allow those parts of me out in the real world. So it wasn't until college, taking like some anthropology courses and like starting to meet people who are out in the world, I was like, oh, this exists out in the world and I had a boyfriend who introduced me to non monogamy because he wanted two girlfriends. Like it was not healthy. It was, it's the way many of us come to it. But I was like introduced to this whole cool world of people who are really interested in nerding out on relationships and needs and coming from a place of abundance, of scarcity, which was also a big part of the work I was doing in terms of healing from all of that religious trauma.
Jamie: 6:43
And that's what brought me to it and I tried to do the monogamy model and the throuple model and the models that were still very much based on coupledom, which no shade on that, it's just not for me. So it took a long time to like both find non-monogamy and then find the version of it that actually fit me.
Ellecia: 7:04
Yeah, yeah, I feel like, I feel like that story is super relatable for so many people. Um, you know, it's like that hard left turn as you become an adult and realize you can make your own choices and like learn things other than what you were told. Uh, and that hard, hard left turn of like, oh wait, there are.
Jamie: 7:25
there are many more options and, um, I'm the youngest of five women, um, I'm the only one who's really like gender, queer, pansexual and all the things and is into this whole world. So I will say, like, I have a family member or sisters who are, like they're, totally monogamous. That fits for them. They love their lifestyle. They know there are other options, something about me that is different. So, like anything I say, I'm always just like I don't want to invalidate what other people have, but this is what works for me.
Ellecia: 7:58
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that. Uh, I'm, I'm curious how I have. I have so many questions. Okay, so many questions. Um, I am a big fan of celebrating the weirdness of life. What would you say has been a standout, fun, quirky or memorable experience from exploring non-monogamy that's like left a lasting impact on you.
Jamie: 8:43
There have been so many I'm going to pick. I'm going to pick a big, showy one. So something that we do in sex positive world. For those who have been in for a little while, as in, we know who you are and you've been through the classes and you've proven that like you really get consent, we do a sex positive world hawaiian vacation. So that is to say it's seven days on maui with about a dozen to 20, depending on which year it was, because there was a pandemic, there was a lot of negotiating, where we actually take vacation together. So that involves like cuddle parties on the first night, the, the massage night the second night. We're kind of building up the energy and familiarity. It's not just everybody just jumps right in the first night because we're all strangers to each other. So we want to take time to cultivate intimacy and community building. We also cook for each other, so that provides some intimacy community building as well. Each other, so that provides some intimacy community building as well. But we also like go snorkel and see turtles and, you know, go on day trips and hikes together. So it really cultivates this like sweet community together. And of course some people get more attracted and coupled up and some of us play with everybody.
Jamie: 9:54
A really memorable moment from that trip, now that I've set the stage, is like night number four. We do an event called Serve and Be Served. So you've had an opportunity to know everybody, you know where the chemistry is and we break the group into basically three. So for one round you get to be served and for two rounds you're doing the serving and at the start of the night everyone raised their hand and go here's the things I really want to do, and some of them are just like I want to do all the sexy stuff. I want to do all the kinky stuff. I'm here to give massages. So you kind of know where people's acts of service are, what's comfortable for them. And, being me, I'm one of the leaders. So not everybody wants to be served by everybody, or they were an intense couple, they just want to play with each other. So when you lead, anybody who's not picked gets to be in your group.
Jamie: 10:43
So I had a group of four that was serving me that night because two people said one person's enough, I just want to be served by one person. I go. Great, I can think of ways to play with all of these folks, um, what I ended up doing was during my round of being served, um is that group of people? I had them wash me in the shower because we had this big walk-in shower, of course, because it's all designed for big groups of sexy people. God, this sounds amazing. I got like a blindfold. I had someone feeding me chocolate. I had someone like massaging me. I had one of them fucking me. Like that's the kind of experience that's really hard to recreate and because it's your opportunity to be selfish, really ask for what you want, and you are with people where you're confident they're going to say no to things that they don't Like I had a heterosexual woman in that group and I was like, how about just like massage, like let's just do that, like this is a level of touch that's okay.
Jamie: 11:39
It meant I was within everybody's consent and boundaries and safety and I got this great amount of service. I mean I also got to wash and massage and do the serving Like that's very sexy too. But the round where I got served I was like I got everything. This is great.
Ellecia: 11:55
Uh-huh, uh-huh, I got everything. This is great. Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, that's freaking amazing. I love that so much and also I'm a little envious. I, um, I uh. Well, you know, we've we've been to some of the same same events with massage parties and I finally this year went okay, I'm not doing massage parties anymore, because what I hate giving massage, I just don't like doing it. But, my God, the idea of having, like a multi-hand massage, I'm like, yes, this is amazing and I finally went okay, I've given it a few tries and the like. Seven or eight minutes of an eight handed massage just isn't worth the 27 minutes of giving a massage for me. And I'm like I just need to find a group of people who don't want to be touched like, who don't want to receive massage and just want to give massage. That's the massage party I need.
Jamie: 12:46
Those people are around. Yeah, so one of the events we do, cause you spent a massage party. Massage party usually five people and the massage gets very short. Um, our group does massage. A massage at was, which is a three person massage, so they're longer, you're giving less, and when I always say in our opening circle, because I lead them, is I'm just like you're not here to give a deep tissue therapeutic massage. If that's what you want, go pay somebody who does that professionally. Yeah, like, if you just want to like massage really softly, you can. That's okay, cause I had the exact same thing where I was like my hands are tired.
Ellecia: 13:29
My back hurts A massage at wall.
Jamie: 13:37
And less about the like. I am now your massage therapist and I'm here to fix your back.
Ellecia: 13:44
I love that. That's so good. What an amazing experience. Yeah, I'm wondering, I'm curious being in like really deeply, actually in a very sex positive community and creating these experiences, what, um, what would you say are the biggest like challenges that come up?
Jamie: 15:19
Um, the biggest challenges that come up in our sex positive community for one comes from our sex negative culture. Like. The reality is, we swim in this ocean of toxicity when it comes to sex negativity and everything that comes with it, like patriarchy and anti-feminism and traditional marriage. So even though we are counterculture to that, saying we don't want to participate in that, we're socialized to it. So something we practice in our community is enthusiastic consent, which even that language, enthusiastic consent, gets a little backlash. Let's say this like yes means yes.
Jamie: 16:00
And if someone says no, we're really cool about it. That's a revolutionary idea to a lot of people. So for those of us who socialized as femme, we're little girls, we're taught to be coy and not give it up and make sure that the boys work for it.
Jamie: 16:16
If you get to anything sexy and little boys who are socialized that way, you know they're taught to pursue, to not hear the no, to convince you to come do the cool, sexy thing. So we're in this space where we're in each other's sovereignty. We're taking that away and saying yes means yes. If I want to play with you, I'm going to be an affirming yes to that. I'm going to ask questions. If I'm not sure, I'm not just going to skitter away a run. The thing is we live in a culture where leaning in we're touching and asking later is the norm. So a lot of what we're leaning into here is teaching people. For one, ask for what you want oh my God, the amount of people who don't know what they want is kind of insane. I remember being in that space too. And then two, it's the like, if you're wanting the thing to really be cool about being told no, going slow, not tonight, I need more information first, because it can feel a lot like rejection, and rejection really hurts too, so shame.
Jamie: 17:21
Resilience is part of what we're also teaching. No doesn't mean I don't like you. It could just mean my tummy hurts right now and I don't want to be squeezed. It could mean not you or I have new relationship energy and I really just want to put all my energy into that basket right now. Or just like I need to get to know you first.
Jamie: 17:46
So we're dealing with a lot of the stories that we tell ourselves and when people are new to community, that can be a bit of a learning edge. But if you stick with it and keep showing up, people learn who you are. You start learning to really oh, they just need to know who I was first and have an opportunity to socialize. Like I said, on the vacation, we do a cuddle party the first night. It's not an orgy the first night because we need space to like get to know each other and let our nervous systems calm down to the point where we can really trust each other, because that's a big part too is like if I'm in a sexy space, can I actually trust the people in the room to make space for me to make up my mind?
Ellecia: 18:25
is it?
Jamie: 18:25
really okay to just watch? Is it really okay to just hang out in the kitchen and not participate? It is and like, how do you make that space safe enough where people really don't just know it in their heads but feel?
Ellecia: 18:39
it in their bodies. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I love that so much. That's so good. So many good points there. First of all, the knowing what you want. Like we're so, you like being being given a menu of like what is acceptable to ask for. Here's the menu. These are the things that I'll probably say yes to, and don't ask for anything that you think I'll say no to otherwise.
Ellecia: 19:04
Shame, shame, shame, shame yes, yes, yeah yeah, um, and I love the other thing that you were talking about is like, um, the need to get used to someone and get a feel for them and see who they are, and because, like, one of the other pieces that we're socialized in is, um, that visit, like instant physical attraction, is like the, the gold, gold star, like that's the thing you're supposed to have. But I've been in so many situations where there are people that I wouldn't instantly be like that's someone I want to fuck. And then I have an hour-long conversation with them and I'm like get in my mouth, holy cow, you are hot, right, like. But before that we never talked, I would have never considered it because we just instantly, we're so socialized to like, is that someone I'm physically attracted to?
Jamie: 19:56
Yeah, and on that topic, like so, in sex positive world we use this thing called the level system and please don't run away, it's not as scary as it sounds. Defining is what level of touch is okay right now within the space that we're creating. So, for example, cuddles, we call that level two, level one, being like we're just talking like a class, that's like it's. It's sensual, it's nurturing, it's not sexual. So, for example, like men are socialized in America not to touch each other because it's gay and being gay is bad. That's our narrative and this allows us to make that space for like one, you can touch and cuddle and not be sexually attracted to somebody. And you can also push back on some of that socializing and realize, like it's actually pretty great.
Jamie: 20:45
Or, massage night I had three heterosexual men on a massage table at. One of the massage at was that I did and they were cool about it. They went for it and you know there's a little resistance and at the end of the night they were like oh my god, men give amazing massages. They're so strong. This is amazing. Yes, there's a lot of spaciousness of like touch and intimacy does not have to be about sex, sexual attraction or like that we have to go there. Like I find the massage touch very, very nourishing and that might be all that I want.
Jamie: 21:20
And, like I mentioned earlier, I'm a very sexual person. So, like, getting to the sex is oftentimes on my mind. But being in cuddle spaces, being in massage nights, being in spaces where we're exploring Tantra but we're not necessarily going towards genitals and orgasm has taught me a lot about how much we miss out on in American culture, cause we don't just share sweetness and intimacy and if we're naked together, it almost immediately turns into something sexual because we're socialized to it. Yeah, so what if we did the opposite and said, no, we're gonna get naked, we're gonna cuddle, we're gonna run sexy energy and then we're gonna go home, we're gonna take this juiciness home and not have to go anywhere with it, like it's really revolutionary and it lets you to like, explore that energy, like you talked about. If I don't immediately have that attraction, maybe I cuddle with somebody and we talk and they realize like, ooh, there, there's a lot of chemistry here that I had no idea was here.
Ellecia: 22:15
Yeah, yeah, god, I love that. What, uh, what's level three then?
Jamie: 22:21
Um, level three is close off. It is no penetration, no fluid exchange. Um, it's usually okay, um, and we're not driving towards orgasm. So the massage can be in that category where you're naked. It can be sexy that there's genital touching, but at no point is somebody attempting to get you to orgasm like and no one's slipping finger fingers into orifices and right you get to pick also. So you could be like I only want femme bodied people to touch my chest, or I don't want it to be super sexy, but those like long strokes up and down and including the genitals can be really integrating because of how much we avoid those spaces so they become strictly sexual.
Jamie: 23:04
So that's the level three area which I consider one of the sweetest, juiciest spaces to be with people.
Ellecia: 23:11
Yes, absolutely. Oh wait. So so how many levels are there? There's four.
Jamie: 23:18
Okay. So what's level four? Level four is where you need to know how to have a safer sex talk, because orgasms, fluid exchange, penetration are all on the table. Not to say that you have to. Like I said earlier, voyeurism is participation, but it's an option.
Ellecia: 23:34
Yeah, yeah, amazing, amazing. Oh, I love this so much. You know it, it it's. I find it really interesting that there are levels of sex positivity in communities, or how do I say this? Like like there are all sorts of sex positive communities, but the level of positivity and education and consent really varies like a lot.
Jamie: 24:06
Yeah, and what I say is our community. We're for beginners, people who go. I just got out of a long-term relationship, dating apps suck and I want to connect with people. Or I've been religious my whole life and I just want community that sees me for who I am. Or I'm queer and I don't know what that means, but a lot of queer spaces are about sexuality or brokenness. So what if I want to be in a euphoric space where we're talking about gender euphoria or like we have things like masturbation circles, so that you can be in self-pleasure with other people, which is a lot more normal feeling than you might realize? If that sounds like crazy, Um, yeah, so it's about making the spaces.
Ellecia: 24:50
I love that so much. I actually I was traveling um with a colleague who, um, she has, uh, had studied um with, um, uh, betty Dodson, nice, and um, which they, uh, you know, really have like, essentially, masturbation circles, right. But we were traveling together and we were like, oh, let's go back to the hotel, we need to like rest. And she's like, can we just like masturbate together? And I was like, yes, yes, we can. I love that idea, thank you. Like it was the first time I had experienced that and it was so lovely and sweet. And I was like, oh yeah, that's not weird that. And it was so lovely and sweet.
Jamie: 25:28
And I was like, oh yeah, that's not weird at all, although, as I say it, and I imagine people listening going, no, that's kind of weird, but actually it's kind of not well and I have friends that are both categories where, if some were like they, I have like strictly sexual relationships or I have strictly professional relationships with other sex educators, where that would absolutely not be okay and we're really cool about it. I'm realizing too. I dropped the thread there. Sex Positive World and its chapters were for beginners and I don't want to throw shade on other places because there's a lot of sex clubs in Portland, for example. There's nothing wrong with just showing up at those and playing and doing your thing, but if you're intimidated by just jumping into an orgy, we're a good place to get started.
Ellecia: 26:12
Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that. That's so good. Yeah, I mean, I, uh, you know, my husband and I, um, when we met I knew I didn't want to be monogamous, but I didn't know what that looked like. I was not.
Ellecia: 26:27
I didn't know anybody who was non-monogamous, unless they were like cheating, um, and so we were like having threesomes with friends, that kind of thing, and I was like, oh my God, let's check out a swingers club.
Ellecia: 26:37
It felt so like, it felt so wild to be like I Googled a swingers club when we went and we were like we're not going to play with anyone, we're just like we'll just do us Right. But we were like deer in headlight, like now, oh my like we had someone come up to us and they're like you're new, huh, can you tell? Is it that obvious? Um, and and then you know and so like, as time progressed, like we went to lots of swingers things and then we went to kink things and then we started meeting more polyamorous folks and then we started going to things with, like sex educators and you know, like, like the evolution of it, I just saw this like really, really wide variety of sex positivity and consent and all of the different ways that it it can show up and I love that there are people teaching how to have safer sex conversations, how to have like non-sexual touch, how to have being able to just say yes and no and receive and give, and I love it so like I am so excited by it.
Jamie: 27:47
One of the things that we started doing in the pandemic was that we've had these classes for a long time where we teach these skills right, like, and we have an orientation to sex positivity, where we also practice saying no. We practice negotiating, which, like, takes a lot of pressure off. And where do you ever practice saying no to people? People like. We don't live in that kind of culture. It's all about convincing people to change their mind, say yes and buy whatever you're selling. So orientation affects positivity. Um, we have a class called awesome boundaries, which is my favorite class because, um, I'm a people pleaser. It's a problem. Boundaries. We talk about culture and socializing. We again practicing no and negotiating. We talk about culture and socializing. We again practicing no and negotiating. We talk about, like, sometimes something is a hell yes and you start doing the thing and you realize I am not a hell yes to this anymore. Actually, I'm uncomfortable, actually, this hurts, actually this, this might be dangerous, and like, you're in your head the whole time, right, and you never speak up.
Jamie: 28:47
Like we have conversations around this um, there's the pleasure talk. How do we talk about not just sex but pleasure and like what you need, like for me. Part of what's important for my my like, having a good sexual experience is I'm gonna have cuddles and body contact. That's part of my favorite sex talk, um, and I learned that in the pleasure talk. There's a lot of different ways to have that one um, and then we also have sexy intersections, which is about how our identities play out in our sex and dating lives, whether that come from issues around race or queerness, um, or ability, or just like how your body is perceived by other folks.
Jamie: 29:26
And, uh, during the, we started teaching those online and we still do that now. So the education's available at sexpositiveworldorg. Twice, it's live, we're working on recordings, but you actually have to show up because we get into breakout rooms and we practice with each other and that's really where the learning gets into your nervous system, because it's really really, really, really hard to talk about what you like, to ask for what you want, and then to actually say no in a way that is like gracious and doesn't come with a lot of anxiety and story behind it, so that's part of it.
Jamie: 30:03
We do these classes all the time.
Ellecia: 30:05
Good, yes, amazing, amazing, excellent. I'm so happy. I'm so happy about that. Since you're talking about it, you also have a thing coming up pretty soon Polytopia. You want to tell the listeners about Polytopia?
Jamie: 30:25
I do, do I do? Polytopia is a conference all for polyamorous people. We have not done it in four years, so this is a conference that sex positive portland used to do and we're doing it again. Um, we are taking over the jupiter hotel the last weekend of august. I want to say it's august 23rd through the 25th. Most of it will happen on saturday. We have three different tracks of education for wherever. Wherever you're at in your poly journey and you're going to be there teaching.
Ellecia: 30:55
I'm going to be there, you can come. You can come see me listener, yeah.
Jamie: 31:02
We have dirty Lola from sex at a go-go coming out, cause Saturday night we're going to have a big sexy show, um, and we're going to have a play space as well for people who might want to experience some different options. Um, because we have different spaces where there's different levels of nudity that are allowed, so there's some things like um. Now I have to remember the names of the workshops, cause we're just starting to announce them there into the workshops, because we're just starting to announce them.
Jamie: 31:29
There's things like, um, how to be at a play party, like how do you even do that? Reed mahalko is going to be teaching that one. Um, we have three's company, which would be more of a hands-on experience about threesomes, where we're practicing with our clothes I think, with our clothes on, you know for later, um, there will be music and a dj and we're selling 100 tickets, so there's going to be a lot of sex positive people. We're also taking over a bunch of the rooms of the jupiter hotel so that we our show. Basically, all the rooms face the show, and the more that we sell those rooms, um, the sexier that show can be, a more explicit. So it's going to be a really incredible weekend.
Ellecia: 32:05
I am so freaking excited, I like ridiculously excited, and I I hope as many people as can come, we'll come.
Jamie: 32:17
We love when people come To lead a sex positive community. You have to have, like, just like a lot of voyeurs in menu, so I really enjoy watching people come to me barbecue, like somebody's birthday party.
Ellecia: 32:48
And um, you know, because, when people ask me, so what do you do? And I'm like, well, I'm the host of Nope, we're Not Monogamous and I'm a non-monogamous relationship coach and they're like tell me more. Um, this person was like, oh my God, I want to go to a sex party, so bad. But like I'm really nervous. And, you know, just told me all these fears he had and and I was like you know, voyeurism is participation. Like you don't, you can go and not do anything. And he was like mind blown. He was like what, I'm going to the next one? I'm saying yes, like it never crossed my mind that I could go to something and that that wasn't my like me saying, yes, I'm gonna fuck everyone here. I was like no, you can, you can go and watch.
Jamie: 33:27
I mean, you know, assuming that everybody is like, yes, you may watch, but like you don't have to participate in the ways that you're thinking that you have to participate yeah, yeah, and that's culture right, saying like it has to be the biggest and the nastiest and you have to do all of it and get drunk and just do the thing. That's not like, that's not consent, that's not seeing people as humans. Like our sexuality doesn't have to mean that, like you, let go of your humanity. Yeah.
Ellecia: 33:56
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. What, uh, I'm curious um having having gone on this journey and doing what you're doing. Has anything like really surprised you?
Jamie: 34:15
um, I, I was introduced to sex positivity, I think, in 2017. Um, I used to meet people on casual encounters off of Craigslist I still do something similar to that, even though casual encounters is gone and that's when I was first introduced to, like, this whole world of sex positivity, where I went to my first orientation and had, like, met my first trans person in real life. You know, I had my first conversation around consent and I'm just gonna say what surprised me was, going from that moment of oh my God, this world exists to now I'm running a local chapter to this point in my life where this is my job. My job is to teach people how to throw their own massage parties and how to do the repair work when things go wrong, because they absolutely will. So, like, that's been what's surprising to me, because my background, my backgrounds in television and film and I thought that I'd just be behind the camera my whole life. And here I am in front of the camera.
Jamie: 35:20
I did my own podcast for a little while. I didn't think that would be me. Like I also. I don't. I don't have the purple hair, I'm not covered in tattoos. I don't have the look that a lot of this the folks in this field do, and I think that that works out, because I need to show up as my authentic self. So I I think what's really surprised me is how much this work is necessary and that just however I'm wired really allows me to do this. So I get to travel around. I just did a road trip down to LA. I have one plan to go to New York in October with my co-teacher, lady V, and bring sex education and teach people how to start community. Like what do you actually need to get going? So I'm I'm surprised that I'm doing this and that this is my life and it's all it's. It's not normal, it's not what other people are doing, but I also love that Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, so relatable.
Jamie: 36:22
Yeah, that's I think that's what surprised me and like now it's like I, you know it's writing policies, it's making plans to go, you know, over to the East Coast and meet lots of new folks who want to do this. We had someone reach out from Singapore who wanted to start a sex positive chapter. They're not calling it sex positive for culture reasons, but now we are teaching classes that are for Singapore, like who, like in my wildest dreams, like these are the things that I wanted and they're happening and that's kind of bananas You're running an international organization.
Jamie: 36:56
Yes, it's a sex positive world for real.
Ellecia: 36:58
I love it so much. That's amazing, oh, um, okay, Tell me this. Um, how how can people get connected with um sex positive world or sex positive Portland, or go to polytopia or reach you?
Jamie: 37:17
Yeah, um, sex positive worldorg is where you can find all of our online courses that we do. We also bring in sex educators. We do discussion groups. I've done book clubs, so you never know what's on offer depending on when you're listening to this. Um, sex positive portlandorg is our local chapter. That's where we have um polytopia listed. I should really put it on sex positive world alsoorg is our local chapter. That's where we have um polytopia listed. I should really put it on sex positive world also, as we're talking like when you're the executive director, you get to do all of the jobs. If someone need a refund, that's you. The trash need to be taken out, that's you. If someone needs to do public speaking, that's you. Many hats, many, many hats. Those are the places to find sex positive. Sex positive world. Sex positive Portland bothorg, because we're nonprofits. And then I'm Jamie love underscore PDX everywhere on social media, on Instagram, on fat life, so you can find me that way.
Ellecia: 38:15
Awesome, I'm gonna put all that in the show notes. Is there anything that you want to share that I haven't asked you?
Jamie: 38:26
What else? I've told you about our core classes. I've told you about our cool vacations that we do. I'm really inspired to help people start sex positive communities, because I think that there is a real loneliness epidemic that's happening all across the world and especially in the United States. I am watching in real time the way that people are getting more connected to their phones, to non-human interaction, to discord servers, and I really believe that what people are missing is community, and I think so many of us are shut off from our sexuality and intimacy and then we're told these stories by culture that, like, the best kind of sex is the big, crazy orgy dome sex, and there's this huge disconnection between our humanity, what we're seeing in the world, and then the loneliness that comes from being on social media. I really believe that building community is the answer to that and for many of us, it's going to come through sexuality, because that's the piece of us that we need to heal. Yeah, so if you are interested in getting started or getting connected with that, like if I'm speaking to you, that's the work that I do. So I'm working on right now. I already teach a class called how to facilitate sexy spaces. I also would really recommend our awesome boundaries class and I'm working on right now also like a leadership essential. Because like leadership essentials plural, because you need to build a team. And like build up your own resilience.
Jamie: 40:01
And there's like there's no perfect way to get started. No one certified me, no one told me I was allowed to do this. Like there, there's not a clear path forward because we don't talk about this stuff. Like you can't even use the word sex on Facebook without that disappearing from all your friends feeds. Like yeah, live in a culture. We're talking about sexuality. Um, even in a safe, sane, consensual, educational way is really not okay and it's thought of as dirty and it's thought of as wrong. And then you add on top of that like monogamous culture. So many of us are not monogamous or we've been in a long-term relationship and we want that openness you know, whatever that might mean.
Jamie: 40:44
Maybe you're monogamish, um, I just I think it's so, so, very important and it really answers a lot of these larger questions around loneliness and how do I date, because where do you go dating apps? Dating apps suck. Can we be real like? They are not designed to help you actually connect with another human?
Jamie: 41:06
they are designed to keep you swiping, because it's addictive, and gambling, and there there's like way more men than women, and then also like this erasure of queerness in the middle. Yeah, um, then you think about the fact that we don't ever practice talking about what feels pleasurable to you and like really hearing and exploring that with each other. Like there is this whole huge piece of who we are, like your second chakra needs attention and to be talked about and there's just not spaces for it and I'm really, it really pisses me off and that's probably like part of why I do this also.
Jamie: 41:43
So you know like if this is resonating with you, there's places to get started, to start, you know, building the muscle of it, because being able to say to somebody I really want you to go down on me is something I could not do when I was 18.
Jamie: 41:58
No no, no, no, no. I was so socialized, so shut down, and to be in a safe space where, like you're following a script, lets all the feelings come up, and that's where connection happens, because we get vulnerable with each other. So I'm all about getting people in the room together, talking about it, feeling the feelings and really like being with it.
Ellecia: 42:23
Yes, yes, if I could give you like a standing ovation for that. It doesn't come across well in a podcast, though.
Jamie: 42:32
We love it. Oh, I can see the whole audience just cheering Wow, we love it.
Ellecia: 42:37
Oh, I can see the whole audience just cheering, wow. Okay, I have one more question for you and this. It doesn't go on the main podcast, but it is available to our supporters at patreoncom slash, not monogamous. The segment is called just the tip and it's what is your best or favorite sex tip that you would like to share. Amazing, you are fantastic. I am so happy you came on. Thank you, and that was jamie love with her. Just the tip. If you missed it, go become a lover or a friend with benefits to the show over at patreoncom slash, not monogamous. And by becoming a patreon supporter, you're going to get access to a bunch of bonus content that we keep just for this exclusive community plus. I will adore you and appreciate you. Thanks for listening. Bye.