From Strict Religion to Ceremonial Celebrations: Dan's Story Ep. 76
Imagine growing up in a world where love had strict rules, only to break free and discover endless possibilities. This is the story of Dan and Jennie, a married couple who defied societal norms to embrace ethical non-monogamy.
For over 30 years, Dan and Jennie have navigated the challenges of leaving behind their conservative religious roots and exploring swinging and polyamory. In this honest and heartfelt conversation, Dan shares their journey, from dealing with shame and judgment to tackling the emotional rollercoaster of jealousy and breakups. His insights give us a rare look into the highs and lows of living life on their own terms.
Here’s what you can expect from this inspiring episode:
Letting Go of Old Beliefs: Discover strategies for shedding outdated beliefs and building real connections.
Effective Communication and Boundaries: Learn how to communicate better and set healthy boundaries in non-monogamous relationships.
Managing Triggers and Embracing Vulnerability: Get practical tips for handling emotional triggers, embracing vulnerability, and focusing on personal growth.
Redefining Love and Sexuality: Gain a fresh perspective on love, sexuality, and the freedom to design relationships that reflect your true values.
With honesty and hard-earned wisdom, Dan dives into the transformative power of confronting personal traumas, embracing all parts of oneself, and living authentically. Whether you’re experienced in non-monogamy or just curious about different relationship structures, this episode is a must-listen. It’s a powerful reminder that love has no limits.
Join me, Ellecia, and Dan on this eye-opening journey, and find the courage to create a life that’s full, passionate, and true to yourself.
Do you feel like you could use some help with your relationships?
Get on a free call with Ellecia to see how she can help you move through the challenges of jealousy, fear, anxiety, and insecurities in a way that strengthens your relationships, deepens your trust, and communication, and leaves you feeling confident.
https://elleciapaine.com/call
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Credits
- Host/Producer: Ellecia Paine
- Editor/Producer: Danny Walters
- Hosted on Buzzsprout
Transcript:
Ellecia: 0:14
Hey, I'm Ellecia, your non-monogamous relationship coach. Welcome to the podcast where my friends and I chat about our relationships enthusiastic non-monogamy polyamory, swinging kink and our lives. You'll get a candid peek into what makes it worth it to live life outside the box. And in case you're still wondering, nope, we're not monogamous. Hey, hey, hey. Okay, grab your favorite drink and settle in.
Ellecia: 0:47
Today I'm chatting with Dan, who's been on an incredible journey with his high school sweetheart, jenny. They've been married for 30 years and part of the ethical non-monogamy community for the past 15 years, and Dan's opening up about their transition from a strict religious background to a more open and fulfilling way of loving and living. We're going to get into the nitty-gritty of letting go of old expectations and focusing on connection, communication and personal growth. He gets real about the challenges, the trauma and the transformations that they've faced along the way, and whether you're curious about non-monogamy or you're decades deep yourself, dan's insights are super valuable. We'll talk about dealing with judgment, shame, jealousy, breakups and a ton more. Plus, dan's going to share some great tips on setting boundaries, managing triggers and embracing all parts of yourself. By the end of this episode, you're going to have a fresh perspective on love and relationships. So listen in and join us for this inspiring conversation. Enjoy, we did the thing.
Dan: 1:44
Yay.
Ellecia: 1:46
That's it. You're now on a podcast. Here we are. That's all it took. Who knew that's amazing?
Dan: 1:59
Not our first video chat at all, but definitely first podcast. Yeah, I didn't know if I needed to get some pillows out to talk to or what so are we gonna be?
Ellecia: 2:12
are we gonna be doing some aspect?
Dan: 2:16
going to breathing exercise?
Ellecia: 2:17
all right, let's do this a little bit of breath work right amazing. Um, okay, let's do this first of all. First of all, thank you for coming. I'm happy you're here I always love talking to you I'm excited to be here.
Dan: 2:34
It's gonna be a lot of fun yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ellecia: 2:37
And then, um, let's start here. Why don't you tell me I love this? Okay, what is your uh style or version of non-monogamy?
Dan: 2:51
Um, currently in this iteration of our enthusiastic non-monogamy journey. Um, so Jenny and I've been together since we were in high school, so we started dating at 15 and 16. I've been married almost 30 years now this November and you know, I would say we were non-monogamous before. We just didn't know how to put that into practice and so for like the last 15 years we've been ethically and enthusiastically non-monogamous, started more on just the lifestyle piece of it. I mean that's kind of our was.
Dan: 3:25
Our entry point was just finding people online to get to know and then really kind of found this community and, you know, all of a sudden realizing that you know I have these friends that I've had for 15 years. You know, not that they're partners, not that they're anything else. It may have started out that way and may not have, but here we are. So I think for the most part I identify as, like all of the above, almost it's like pan poly. You know, I don't know it's, we definitely are. There's some hierarchy how we do it, just because of our history together and that just is what works for us. Um, but like currently I'm I wouldn't say I'm a free agent. I mean I have, you know, jenny is my you know partner um, but more just kind of focusing on friendships and connections right now um currently not I'm accepting that I, I mean, I do accept that I am poly.
Ellecia: 4:17
but I don't need to have a partner to have to be Polly and I think that was one of the things.
Dan: 4:21
After coming out of a couple, um, you know, long-term relationships, I would consider, you know, three years, a couple of those three-year relationships coming out of that and kind of like, oh gosh, I have to have the next one, cause I'm Polly, I have to be in multiple relationships, otherwise, like I have to turn in my card or something I don't know, and then just kind of come to the realization it's just who I am and how I do things and yeah, when the time's right, the time's right. When the person's right, the person's right, and it's really not in any hurry or you know anymore, but open to connections and open to seeing where those connections go. And I think that's been the one of the best. One of the many great things about you know this community and how Jenny and I have evolved our relationship is just the freedom to see where each relationship goes.
Ellecia: 5:06
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm, mm, hmm, I love that so much. Um, that's funny that you said um, it might have to like turn in my, my polyamory card and then another partner because I feel like people do that. Excuse me, people do that. Have that idea. I've had a lot of people say well, neither of us is like dating anyone else or sleeping with anyone else. Does that mean we're monogamous now?
Ellecia: 5:30
I mean how long do you have to not be having sex with a second person to be considered monogamous if that's not the agreement that you've made?
Dan: 5:39
right, right, yeah, is it a day?
Ellecia: 5:41
is it a week like right right?
Dan: 5:44
we're monogamous now yeah yeah yeah, no, nope, we're not monogamous exactly um, how long have you guys been together? So that would be 34 years now this November, since our first day. So, yeah, you know, I mean, and it's like I think we had to evolve, right, because we couldn't stay. I mean, hopefully we wouldn't stay 15 and 16 forever. So, um, yeah, that's just, it's been a, it's definitely been a journey.
Dan: 6:18
I mean not definitely not a linear path at all, but yeah, just I feel like more of a whole person the more of who I am too. It helps, helped us kind of understand who we are and who we were back even as kids a little bit better and some of those feelings around relationships when we were just starting out dating other people back, you know, before we met each other and and dating people after we met each other. So it's been just, it's been a journey.
Ellecia: 6:53
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You guys are adorable. I love that. I asked because I knew how long you guys have been together, but I have people ask me all the time about like, can you be non-monogamous and have like a successful long-term relationship? And so you guys are like a prime example of yes, you can.
Dan: 7:18
You have to do the work, I mean, but every relationship you can, you have to do the work, I mean, but every relationship, you know you have to do work. So it's like what's your heart going to be, you know? Is your heart going to be jealousy and not trusting each other and all those other things that seems to kind of come around in a lot of relationships? Or is it going to be just always trying to understand where you are and also understanding where the other person's coming from? And I think that's what we've been able to do really well for each other. And it's always whether it was, you know, leaving churches or deciding to have families or any of those things it's always been a discussion and we've kind of kept it that way. And it's, of course, evolved, and it's not always, you know, not messy in some of those discussions, but it's always moving forward. It's always looking to the future and kind of the what's next? Yeah, and knowing that we don't always get to the same answer.
Dan: 8:10
Well, we aren't the same people and sometimes we might, as a couple, get to the same place, but it might not be at the same time, and so to kind of make sure that, even if you're pulling ahead, you're still kind of always, you know, looking back, you've got a handout.
Dan: 8:21
You're kind of, you know, guiding along or you're. You know you're, I mean, I remember a number of times where it's been one of us has been ready to do something, you know, whether it was, like I said, church or relationships or relationship styles, and the other person may not have quite been there yet and you might take some time or just take more time to kind of understand that. And I think that's what we've been really working on doing. I mean, you know, you know our story pretty well, so it's definitely something that we've had to learn about and grow as individuals with, but also it's definitely been helped kind of solidify us as our, as a you know, primary relationships, our primary relationships as we navigate other relationships and support each other through stuff that you don't really get to do and experience if you don't explore this lifestyle.
Dan: 9:06
Like you know, you don't generally get to support your spouse through breakups, unless it's breaking up with you, so you're probably not supporting them them. So you know, learning how to do that has been another part of the heart that gets opened up, because you kind of learn this different type of empathy that you may not have had to explore before.
Ellecia: 9:27
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Gorgeous, I love that. What? Okay, you, you mentioned church a couple of times and so I, I think, um, would you share a little bit about your uh journey there, as, like, you guys had like like young love and I think you both grew up pretty religious and then um, and then you like became swingers and then polyamorous, and now you're here and um, and then you like became swingers and then polyamorous, and now you're here and um. I think a lot of people would would love to hear a little bit about that.
Dan: 10:05
Sure. So I mean, jenny grew up like very Catholic in a very Catholic household, like both families were. Both parents were Catholic, both. You know, it was just kind of not only who they are, but it's also like their culture, right, and I was kind of more of the. My dad didn't go to church and all of us went to church. And if we did go to church it was probably because we were going with grandma, Cause if you spent the night at grandma's house, you went to church, um, and so that was really my exposure to it.
Dan: 10:32
But I always knew that's something that I really wanted to do was the, the um, to be a priest. And then, you know, as I learned more about Catholicism as a kid, realized, like I think it was like fourth grade, ccd or something like that, or you're learning, it's like, well, they can't get married, I'm like, but I like girls at the very least, but like I, that doesn doesn't quite. I don't know how that's going to work, um, but it wasn't ever anything that was like enforced in my house or reinforced, I should say, very much at home. Jenny and I met. We met in junior high, but we started dating in high school and, uh, she invited me to youth group and I was like, oh, how would I want to go to youth group? She's like, well, it's more time with me and we can maybe do stuff afterwards. And I was like, you know, youth group sounds great.
Dan: 11:19
I'm in more time with you, um, and so we did that and then I don't know, kind of like anybody, maybe that comes into something at their own choice. I was very into it very quickly, to where I was. You know, leading groups, things like that, fast forward, I'm a youth. I worked for the church as a youth ministry coordinator for a few years. Um did sacramental prep, all that fun stuff. Um, then you know, I was once everything kind of started hitting the fan back in like early 2000,.
Dan: 11:51
Like in the early two thousands with the Catholic church. I was working there. That was the timeframe I was working in and I had um, a volunteer that had actually not been abused by a coach, not a, not a priest, but just the fact that he couldn't quite reconcile that this was going on and people knew about it and that kind of started. I started becoming more disillusioned with it as things were going on and I was ready to leave before Jenny was, you know, she was like, you know, they have to have their first communion and their white outfits and all this stuff and I'm like, yeah, but they don't like for us it was when our middle daughter wanted to. She must have been for kind of pointed at the nun that was giving a gospel reflection because they couldn't preach, they could give a reflection on something. And she said I want to do that reach.
Dan: 12:39
They could give a reflection on something. And, um, she said I want to do that. And jenny was like, oh, what, you want to be an ultra server or you want to be in the choir like dad? She's like no, I want to talk. And jenny was like, wow, and they won't let you and it was literally, that was it and we became episcopal for a bit.
Dan: 12:54
Um, I was kind of looking at becoming a deacon there, maybe going into seminary at that point, and then saw behind the curtain again, kind of moved on from that, hung out at a Presbyterian church for a while and then I was just like I'm just not feeling it, Like this is. I can't be inauthentic in this Like I was so you know, so deep in everything.
Ellecia: 13:14
Things aren't lining up here, yeah.
Dan: 13:16
Yeah, and and yeah, and the pastor that was at that, you know I actually have a couple of great pastors that I've known and worked with, but you know, standing up and singing and praying and stuff, I just like well, I can't fake this and that's when we left and our kids kind of left with us on their own choices, um, and yeah. So it was kind of, uh, I wouldn't call it 20 years in the desert, but there was. You know, there was some wandering, um, kind of just not even thinking about my spirituality really anymore. And you know you feel those wheels out and you're doing all these development things it's like. And then, um, meeting with my relationship coach Wait, so okay.
Ellecia: 13:59
But were you guys? Were you guys still going to church when you started swinging?
Dan: 14:04
So, yeah, a little bit, but it was. I had a health issue come up when I was in my early thirties, when we were at the Episcopal church and, um, it was about two years of I probably had like 10, 12 procedures, infections, all the fun stuff, hospital stays. And once that was done, I was just kind of like OK, we've talked about all of these things, our entire relationship, like I had this touch of my mortality, like literally like I've had some issues, and I was like I don't, like, we've got to just start living. And that's really when it was like OK, then we started kind of exploring that aspect of ourselves and with gusto and it was interesting because it was it was very something separate that we wanted to keep completely separate from everything. It was just something we did together on weekends with people that we met online and maybe, have you know, meet up first and just start hanging out, and then people be like, hey, we want to be friends with you.
Dan: 15:02
I'm like, no, no, no, we have a life and we have friends and we have all this stuff. And then pretty soon, you know, here I am 15 years later and those are some of those. People have been my friends for 15 years, you know, and it's it really became my community because I really had left one behind. Um didn't really have a sense of community. I mean there was, you know, I was coaching and there was work and there was, you know, sports and stuff like that with the kids, but there really wasn't anything that I was doing for myself um, that way and uh, yeah, it completely changed.
Ellecia: 15:34
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah. Yeah, the like like community and friendships. That I mean. That's, that's how we met you.
Dan: 15:48
Hey, they're cute.
Ellecia: 15:53
Yeah, yeah, I think it was my birthday and we left a concert and you, you guys, were downtown and we're like, well, we're downtown. We're like we are too. Let's have drinks, yeah.
Dan: 16:01
Here we are. Yeah, that was our. We were out for our anniversary, because it's November, right, I think. Yep, yep, yeah, so we were out for our anniversary. So it wasn't like it was nice out, but history, yeah, yeah, it was those people and I think I wrote this and because I wrote, I filled out that form a couple of times. But, um, that was when, I think, people really started to see me and I started to feel felt, felt, feel seen, and that was from somebody. Um, I mean, I would not be where I'm at, like nobody would be where they're at without stuff happening. But I remember, remember going to.
Dan: 16:40
You know, I started going to people, friends who were in bands, like we were around creative people in this community. It was a lot of fun and I mean we're going to country shows, not my jam, but supporting my friends and finally one of them was coming over to show and they're like, yeah, this is my friend, dan, and what's your name? Your band? I'm like I don't have a band. He's like you should get a band. I'm like I should definitely get a band. So, for, yeah, I'm like you're absolutely right. So for two years ish, I was in a like 90s alternative grunge cover band, you know, singing my heart out, singing like 45 songs a night, of all the stuff that I love to do. So it was like oh um, to career changes, you know, to getting into financial services and banking and all of that. That's all because of the people I've met in the community and, uh yeah, just recognizing things in myself that I didn't even, that I wasn't even seeing.
Ellecia: 17:27
Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah. So so being um in a? Um, like a sex positive community or a place where you could show up as a more authentic version of yourself, uh, allowed a more authentic version of yourself to be seen.
Dan: 17:47
Yeah, I didn't have to have. You know, a whole part of myself just completely be pushed to the side to be in, to have a friendship right, or to be a to have a job.
Ellecia: 17:56
I was like oh no, I can just be.
Dan: 17:58
As I've learned through, you know, growing pains and everything. I can just be more of my whole self and, holy crap, I'm attracting people that I like. I'm actually being the person that I like. So it was just, you know, there's been conversations we've had with the kids around that, even without them knowing kind of all the details. It was very much about like being able to be being able to start to go out in the world without a mask on, you know.
Dan: 18:22
And now you know, if I go to an event and we, we invite a lot of um, like for birthdays and things like that, it's community, it's a little bit of family. I'll tell you, the community people are the ones that show up. They will always show up for a party, they'll always show up to celebrate you and it's, you know, their friends and family sometimes have excuses or reasons or or whatever else and um, all valid or whatever. But yeah, those are the people that show up and then our friends and family that come that do meet them. That's just some cool people that you know are weird, like I am. It's like not a surprise that I'd be friends with the people I'm friends with. I think would most people meet them, it's like, oh, this makes sense, like everybody's hugging for a long time, you know. Oh, they just kiss right on the mouth and they're friends. Like, oh, this is kind of weird.
Ellecia: 19:05
They must be European yeah.
Dan: 19:10
So we've done a little bit more of that, especially over these last few years as things have opened back up. You know, after the blip I think we've just become more comfortable and confident who we are and that's who we want to be out in our community, and you know as much as we can in our day to days.
Ellecia: 20:39
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's inspirational. Okay, tell me this what would you say were the biggest challenges that you guys have? Uh, journeyed, journeyed past?
Dan: 20:56
yeah well, I mean I, I always, whenever we talk to new people, because you know we always seem to find them and they find us. It's really, you know, we just say you're gonna have, you're gonna have boundaries, you're gonna set, and those are, you know, there's safety boundaries, there's healthy boundaries, there's also just boundaries that you have in your mind that is going to be right for your relationship. And a lot of times, a lot of those times, you cross a boundary. You might not even know it's a boundary until you cross it. And I think, learning how to have grace in those situations to you know, because sometimes it's at a group setting or at a party or something might happen and it's really about taking that.
Dan: 21:34
You know, we just have, you know, very extensive conversations on the way home, sometimes, as we kind of learn, like, oh, that that crossed the line. It's like, really, is that a line that we even needed to have? I'm like, you know, maybe we don't, maybe that's not. You know, let's re-explore why we had that line. It's like, oh, because of A or B. It's like, well, that doesn't really make sense. Let's just that line's gone. You know, that doesn't make sense for who we are. One of those was falling in love Like oh boy, catching feelings. I mean, you know, the first time it happened in our relationship we weren't, we hadn't defined ourselves as being poly, we didn't even know what that was, or we didn't understand.
Dan: 22:11
I didn't think that was in our lexicon yet, and it was a few years later where, you know, Jenny was just having a conversation with one of our friends and he was like it sounds like you are, like you have a big heart, Like you love a lot of people, Like here's, here's a couple of books, and that so began the journey of many books regarding our, you know, our polyamory, our, our choices in life, um, our traumas and why we have these relationship styles. And, uh, so it was really coming to that point where it was like hey, I think I mean cause, really, Jenny was like I'm Polly and I'm like good for you, Like that sounds great, Like I'm like one's enough for me, and so I thought and then just kind of realizing that I've been doing that really my whole life too, having these relationships where I wouldn't call it romantic love but it was definitely affection and love and I wouldn't.
Dan: 23:11
If those would have continued on, those relationships that probably would have developed further. I mean just at least on my side, doesn't mean the other person that I was in their relationship with, polly, so who knows. But yeah, kind of like, oh OK, this is starting to make a lot more sense and I mean it's embarrassing, but like, literally, I had Jenny. Like I didn't know what to do and I mean I was 16 the last time I asked somebody out on a date. I don't even really think I ever asked Jenny out on a date. It was literally like you want to go to a movie, we were friends. I actually had a different girlfriend, um, probably the last time I was not ethical about it.
Dan: 23:47
Um and uh, yeah, we just, you know it was just one of those things. But you know, she quickly kind of was like hey, I've met this person. I'm like, yeah, I just want to see like a lot of different people and just kind of be friends because I've always, I've always been able to connect with, you know, women um easier. Back since I was a child, I've always kind of been surrounded by and friends with lots of women and that was just, you know who I, who I have been. I think it comes down to like trusting men more than anything else in those spaces. But you know that's a whole nother episode. But to really um understand kind of where she was coming from, also doing some reading, but it was actually like I was probably seeing, you know, going out consistently with like two or three different people and one very consistently like every week and one of my partners was like, oh, how's your?
Dan: 24:44
girlfriend? I'm like I don't, I don't have a girlfriend, I have a wife. Like what about so-and-so? I'm like they're my girlfriend. Like well, how often you hang out? I'm like well, just every tuesday and saturday.
Ellecia: 24:53
We just have weekly dates, but you know it's not serious.
Dan: 24:57
It's not serious at all and that you know. So that became, you know, my first, you know, long term relationship was a three year relationship in the community. So yeah, it was just I was a little different, a little slower, you know, kind of watching her, kind of navigated, um, hearing about her dates, and then, yeah, kind of started going on my own but really I even had her like trying to help, like we were reaching out. I didn't know how to do this in our communities, or sometimes in my mind anyways, kind of a negative connotation about sometimes, single guys. Not that I was single, but now I was.
Dan: 25:31
My dynamic was changing, you know, and jen Jenny had always kind of been my icebreaker. She was. Jenny will talk to any like forever. She will talk to anybody any time she doesn't. You know, first time she meets them they're her best friend and I'm much more of like who's this person? Here's me, your friend, you know. Um, so even like early on in that part of the journey I was like, hey, maybe you and I can go meet this one gal and we can kind of see if we vibe. You know, kind of not not that we were both trying to date her, but trying to make them feel safe going out and then realizing that was more of a me thing than a them thing. Um, you know, you know, seven years later or wherever we're at now, from when we started, it's like oh OK, so we're not like on dating profiles and I've got my own stuff going on and I go to parties and get on my own. But yeah, back then I was very much, she was my person that introduced me to people. So it was a.
Ellecia: 26:27
It was different for sure Like I'm going to bring my security blanket, yeah, yeah.
Dan: 26:30
Yeah, yeah, please, it's for you. You it's like it's actually for me, um, so yeah, so that was a, that was a big change for us, but yeah, I think that was and then just navigating how we want to do the poly piece, like we're very much, you know, hey, everybody's going to be friends and all the meadows are going to know each other to like. Well, maybe you know, you know maybe not, you know.
Ellecia: 26:52
It's like oh hey, we found a couple. We both like the people. Maybe this will be know.
Dan: 26:54
It's like oh hey, we found a couple. We both like the people. Maybe this will be the answer. And it's like eh still comes down to the individuals. Not really. You can't put that kind of pressure on it. So yeah, she's. I mean, she's been with her partner for five years now.
Dan: 27:03
They just had their five year anniversary last weekend, so, um, or last week, I guess it wasn't over the weekend, but you know it's, and I'm, you know, no longer involved. Besides, I mean her partner, chris, and I are like BFF, so I was out at a happy hour with him last week, and so that part, that part is cool. But yeah, it's not that that it doesn't. There's just no like one right answer for finding anything.
Ellecia: 27:31
So I found out, it's just like how many times did you think that you guys were like okay, here's what we're going to do, here's the plan, this is what this is going to look like, and then have that um, not be what things look like.
Dan: 27:50
Um, pretty much every not to be dramatic, but pretty much, I think every friendship or relationship has kind of been like that in a in good and bad right. It's like I, you have expectations just based on past experiences or hopes. But you know, the more people you add into the mix, the more personalities you add into the mix, the more variables you add into the mix. I mean, there's things that just change. People grow. You know, jenny and I have grown together.
Dan: 28:19
We have it sounds weird to say we have a lot of more. We have less things in common now than we did at the beginning, but we're closer together. Just because I think there's. You know, we have different interests, we have different things that you know make us go wow, and for each of us sometimes we look at each other like, well, that's what you want. I know she's looked at me Well, that's what you're into. It's like, yeah, it kind of is. I don't know, I just want to try it, yeah. And so, yeah, it's definitely been something that we've had to grow through and I think that's a piece that I think from the outside, of polyamory or non-monogamy, you know, they just think it's like, hey, it's just all fun and hedonism and it can be like probably not forever.
Dan: 29:09
You know, it's like it's like that, it's like new relationship, energy. It's like you get into the space that's new, and it's like this is all I want. And you're like, well, maybe this isn't all I want, maybe I want more. You know, maybe I, maybe I, maybe I need a little more. Or maybe it's like I don't need more right now, like I've got plenty, or there's other things going on and it's not a race has really been kind of peace for us too piece for us too.
Ellecia: 29:35
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really funny, um, because I, I feel like, uh, I feel like rob and I have done that too where we've evolved to where we, you know, like we're doing things that we both individually want to do rather than everything together, where there was a time when we did everything together and I feel like people on the outside looking in go like, like, like, especially because we have such a monogamous culture. Oh, that means something bad is happening.
Ellecia: 29:58
You guys are are pulling away from each other and actually no, it means we have like a lot more that we get to like talk about and share with each other. That isn't like we weren't just there for every experience.
Dan: 30:12
It's not always remember when it's like hey, let me tell you about right, it's not. Yeah, big time it's been a. You know she was. I mean, it even started with our kids, like when she didn't have to go to the concerts that I like to go to anymore. She was so happy that I had other people to go with, starting with our children. But now, like you know, partners and in our community, it's like, yeah, no, I don't want to go get high and watch a comedy show.
Dan: 30:36
You know, maybe that's not what I want to do, but you have people you like doing that with go for it, you know, and if there's things that she enjoys doing and you know we'll always be there, I wouldn't say as a backup date, like we always, we just enjoy being together. I mean, if you see us, we're generally holding hands or arm and arm or we're, you know, super affectionate and we'll go do stuff together just because that's what the other person likes. But hey, if they have another person that also really likes doing that thing, then go with them, Right, it doesn't I don't need to come along now. You know, sometimes it's like, hey, you don't got a date you want to, you want to go.
Dan: 31:08
We both have done that. It's like you know, and it's not like, oh, I guess I'll go with you. It's like hell, yeah, let's go. Do that. Like I'm going to be with you, I'm gonna be with our friends. It may not be my jam, but it's not. It's not a bad thing, it's just. I was hoping that this other person was going to be able to go with you, just because that's something that they um, what gosh?
Ellecia: 31:29
I have seven questions what, um? What, would you say, makes a relationship successful?
Dan: 31:48
communication and and and the space, and the and the, the space, to have that communication right. I mean, I've tried to become no, I'm not trying, I've become better at responding than reacting. You know, I know that's been something I've had to grow into through this, because sometimes you know the first reaction to something, even where that person's coming from, and to realize that you love them and they love you. And this isn't anything to do with trying to hurt you or hurt each other. It's just about understanding why and I think that's been like I said we, that's what we tell everybody and it's like you're going to talk and just keep talking, like when you stop talking, that's when shit goes sideways and just keep talking. Like when you stop talking, that's when goes sideways, like yeah, um, you know, when you stop communicating about it, when you're afraid to bring something up.
Dan: 32:40
I know jenny and I dealt with that. I mean, we were both in a couple of long-term relationships that we we kind of realized we weren't spending as much time together as we wanted. Uh, just because of the family dynamic we had and having to be at home and still wanting to be out dating and really had to, you know, have some heart to hearts around that and, you know, still give space for that other, those other relationships, but also then make sure that we're finding the time that will for what we need and kind of unapologetically like hey, you know, I know this isn't, you know, not everybody wants to hear this right now, but we need to not pull back at all, but we need to be doing what we're doing.
Dan: 33:19
But also, you know it's an and, and I think that's one of the things to watch out for for us anyways, is to not, and one thing that I look for especially kind of out dating on my own, is it's like it's there's not.
Dan: 33:39
It's like it's there's not, as I'm not, it's not an either or choice, like. I'm never like don't make me make a choice, because this, my life, isn't about choices. My life is about options and and um, different paths and different relationships, and so, um, and I feel more confident, kind of like, and looking out for that as I go into relationships, and you know, from the, from the get-go, um, I, I mean, nothing actually probably sends me spinning more than somebody that's like well, I might get jealous, if you know, I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, like let's, let's have this conversation right now, cause it's not if it's when, like, there might be a timeframe where you know, especially at the beginning of new relationships, I can definitely get you know to toward, like that's the one other thing besides my marriage and family that I really want to focus on as we, as you build something, as you get to know each other, but it's it's not going to like probably be forever.
Dan: 34:25
I'm not saying never, cause who the hell knows Like I say that now and then I'll be, you know, you know doing something different, but for me it's like there's always going to be the possibility that I'm going to have additional relationships to the one that I'm adding, you know, because that's just I know who I am and that's how we got to where we're, that's how I met you. Like that's why we're talking, that's why we're dating, is because I'm an and person not an, or and, and, and what else?
Dan: 34:53
So yeah, so that's how we've had to. I would say that's a big piece of learning too.
Ellecia: 34:58
It's just being able to own those things and to know that that's, you know, like I said, like I was in a relationship where I would have been like hey, we can you know, while we're still building this, we're coming out of a pandemic, whatever.
Dan: 35:08
We can definitely keep this closed for a little while. We're going through this for a little while, or going through some, and it's like so I'm open to that and those relationships for periods of time. But I just know that that I'm not going to be not being honest or authentic If I say that this oh, don't worry this, you know it's going to be me and Jenny, and then me and you and that's it forever. Cause it's like I've got a lot of really cool friends that I like hanging out with and some of them are very intimate friendships. You know we may not be dating, but we're very close and yeah, it's just this.
Dan: 35:36
Those aren't relationships or friendships that I'm just gonna walk away from Now. They've been friendships and relationships long enough that those they can they also understand. You know it's like hey, it might be a pause here. I may not be coming to house parties for a little bit or if I do, I may not be fully participating, but yeah, not in that space right now. So it's been kind of fun to go to house parties and participate.
Ellecia: 35:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It takes so much like self-awareness and and probably courage also, to be in the face of like new love or a new relationship and be like and this is who I am, I'm, I am still gonna want to also engage with other people, Like knowing that, like, like there's so much fear of like God. I'm gonna say this thing and that might be my walk.
Dan: 36:23
I mean I might have an anxious attachment style. I don't know. From the research I've done, I'm going to diagnose myself with that. So no, and it's definitely like my body physically reacts to that kind of a almost threat to who I am and it's it's. It was uncontrolled. I mean, it was at a great date, we had dinner and then it was kind of like, well, I don't know besides, you know, besides me and you, if you and your wife were wanting to do stuff, great. But if you're doing stuff separate, I'm like, oh god, I don't care how electric this was and how great of a connection.
Dan: 36:54
It's like we're starting here now yeah, this isn't gonna. You know and you're and this person is exploring non-monogamy. You know it's kind of like, okay, yeah, I've explored too and know that this isn't gonna probably work out. You know, kind of fast forward, a little bit like, yeah, either we need to slow this way down and just be friends and kind of so you get to know who I am and how I operate, or, yeah, we're not going to be able to see each other anymore.
Ellecia: 37:19
Yeah, yeah, it sucks. So much self-awareness.
Dan: 37:23
Well, and especially like now, Jenny, with you know, with her, with with her and Chris, like she doesn't they're, they're kind of in a close, like. So she's basically just with Chris and with me, um, and so that's where I'm like, oh well, I'm kind of not, I'm not on my own, but I'm, I'm like I'm on my own to do some of the things and um, which is great because it's in a different dynamic.
Dan: 37:46
Yeah, and it's. It's really helped me grow Right, because that's I mean, you've known me a long time and you know that's not who I was when I met you.
Ellecia: 37:56
Um, and to be just like yeah, yeah, I'm going to Canada for the weekend, you know.
Dan: 38:00
I'll be back, you know, not that nonchalantly. It's definitely like, hey, this is going on. Do we have anything else going on in our world that this is going to be an issue with? But it's like, hey, I'd like to go hang out with these people. It's about the communication piece of it, but it's not about like a permission piece about it yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah totally but that.
Dan: 38:18
But yeah, that's a completely different relationship dynamic than I ever thought we would be in and I think I was probably well, not, I don't think I know I. That probably left led to like the you know any relationship. I'm like I gotta get on okq, but I gotta get on these. You know, I gotta get on all these sites because I got to I don't have a girlfriend. Like what am I doing? Like she still has a boyfriend, Like I have to have something and kind of you know you're like I don't need, I need to like first of all, I need to work on some shit, like there's some stuff like that.
Dan: 38:45
These relationships have highlighted for me some areas that I need to work on, because I was either susceptible to certain things or wasn't aware of certain things or wasn't being my best self in those relationships. I'm like trying to figure out why, like why was I possessive?
Ellecia: 39:00
Why was I jealous when I wasn't possessive or jealous in my marriage.
Dan: 39:06
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so common.
Ellecia: 39:08
I hear that all the time. Why do I feel this way in one relationship and not the other? And what does that mean?
Dan: 39:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's just you know you don't have the time together. I think you know proximity wise to have be able to have just an instant conversation if you're having kind of that anxiety or that the unsureness, and so I think that just like exacerbated those types you know, as I was in these relationships and then started doing the reading and going like, oh shit, like this may not work out, like like an extreme anxious person and somebody that just completely wants to push everything away. It's like, yeah, we're on the wrong ends of the spectrum. Like I remember we were early, as early on in a relationship with one of my partners. I mean, both were doing this, reading a book and it was like kind of had one of those like yeah, oh, we'll still go for it, like that's not us. It's like, oh, no, that totally, that's totally why this didn't work.
Ellecia: 39:58
Like we just do you remember which book?
Dan: 40:04
I don't. There's just been so many now, but it was definitely like it was. It was an easy read but yeah, it was just like the anxious person versus the, you know, the avoidant and I was just like, oh, we're not like, we're not like kind of I'm not like a little bit of you know anxious and she's a little avoidant. It's like we're both far ends of that spectrum.
Ellecia: 40:24
Yeah, All of your wounds.
Dan: 40:27
And then finding out yeah, yes, definitely, and that's all I'll say about that. And then that's all I'll say about that Cause.
Ellecia: 40:37
Yeah, when you learn to hurt.
Dan: 40:38
When you learn to hurt somebody, you can really hurt them.
Ellecia: 40:40
I'll just say that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so truly.
Dan: 40:45
So I mean it's deeper love, deeper, like I. I know I talked to you about it when I was going through it, um, through one breakup, or probably actually through both of them. Um, yep, I, I definitely know so, because the one I told you I was like we'd had a session, like yeah, I think I'm gonna go break up with that person today. Even jenny was like what? Um, yeah, so it's definitely been. It's definitely challenged me to grow, that's definitely for sure.
Ellecia: 41:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What would you say is the biggest benefit of that?
Dan: 41:19
Just I feel it here, you know, and here, like, I feel like I I'm more open and I have a voice about it, you know, and, um, I wouldn't, I couldn't have had that without understanding, but I mean one relationship. I mean I went deep into like some personal work with that person too. So I'm forever grateful because she created that space and what we did didn't have any kind of effect on our relationship, but it definitely did Affect kind of how I understood myself and my relationships with my parents, you know, my family and things like that. So, yeah, there's definitely, yeah, it's been a it's. I would say it's just helped me understand my trauma and to like or face it and not, and because I wanted to write, because I wanted to not feel that way anymore, I wanted to. I mean, I remember to not feel that way anymore. I wanted to.
Dan: 42:16
Um, I mean I remember when Jenny and I first decided to have kids, like I went and saw, you know, a psychotherapist, just cause I was like I have all this anger and I just don't want to be an angry dad. Now my kids said I was, you know, a little angry but I just like, well, it wasn't anything that I grew up with, so they didn't have the comparison and it was just so. I've always kind of known that I mean it was, you know, a lot of years between. But yeah, I mean I haven't gone through a breakup since I was 15, before I, before the most you know, before these last two, you know, and I think I told you about it.
Dan: 42:55
Like I didn't, under like breakup songs hit different now, like especially like the eighties and the ones that I knew, but it was like oh, sing along with it. It was like, oh, like I mean I can't like Pearl Jam black, like that is like my warmup karaoke song to go to Cause it kind of gets everything loosened up. But it's also like now that I sing it it's like I mean that was a song that my band covered. So it was like I know that song, I know where to put all the little inflections I know where to you know.
Ellecia: 43:19
And now it hits. Oh, now it's like, am I going to?
Dan: 43:22
cry when I'm singing this song. And you know no-transcript. You know I was not out. I mean I came out as Pam to my kids before you know, the Polly piece came up. I don't know how they understood how I was practicing that or how you know. But you know I was reading a book and I took a quiz on Cosmo. They totally told me, and, but, to be able to kind of start owning some of those things, and I mean, like I said, I grew up Catholic.
Dan: 44:12
There's just a lot of shame around all this. Like you know, jenny and I were shamed when we were in high school and, like our youth minister found out we were having sex, like you had to have a meeting with us. I'm like, you know, you should be saving yourself. And I was like, yeah, we should. And that lasted like an afternoon. I was like, yeah, no, I don't agree with that rule. And man, we're not going to. Yeah, no, this is too good.
Dan: 44:34
But yeah, just kind of having growing up with that, the, the taunting you know from the, from dad, mostly about being different, you know sissy, and all that kind of stuff, and it was just kind of oh like, let me, let me actually like why? Why would he think that? And it's like, oh, cause, it's not. I mean not that, but it's definitely like I'm different than he was. You know, they're like hunting and guns and I'd rather go hang out with girls. I don't want to go out in the woods and be in a tent with guys for a week, like that does not sound like fun for me, girls, that's so gay.
Dan: 45:14
As I was lettering in drama. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because you know I I mean, but I was doing, I mean, the first musical we were just talking about this at trivia last night I tried out for South Pacific because, like my junior high girlfriend was trying out for it. And then of course we broke up and we had to see each other every day for rehearsals for like three months. But you know, that's the only reason I did it was I did it to get chicks like that was like hey, on stage. So, um, yeah, yeah, definitely not.
Dan: 45:39
Yeah, it was definitely a a different time a difficult time kind of growing up with that, and then I think I just kind of all got pushed away until you know let's push that aside, let's deal with that.
Ellecia: 45:51
Yeah, it might.
Dan: 45:53
It might come up in 30 years, maybe with a vengeance, I don't know. But yeah, to be able to feel supported on that part of it. Anyways, the the pan piece and the you know, or by by pan, I don't know, it's just it was by, and then it's like actually it's pan, I don't know, it's whoever I need, it's gonna be the connection?
Ellecia: 46:12
it really doesn't.
Dan: 46:13
Yeah, like people I'm not gonna, you know it's not gonna come down to equipment, like it's gonna come down to the connection. So, um, and you know, it's definitely something that our kids understand that part Some more than others. We have adult children, quasi adult children. Once you know they're, they're not one, still in the teens, but the rest are beyond that now. So, and then now we're, you know, marrying people of all kinds of you know traditions and structures and all of that, and it kind of blows their minds because they still have.
Dan: 46:45
We still have a picture up in our living room with us from our wedding, you know, and they're like, but you guys were like 19 and 20 and like all of our lives was just this. Here's this ideal of like the perfect. You know, mom and dad, like all of our friends, thought you guys were so much fun. It's like, well, we are, we, we are fun, just more fun than you guys could have understood at the time and or needed to. Right, that was. That is definitely something that we were doing.
Dan: 47:11
But, um, our hope is at least just kind of. They know what's, they know other options are out there besides monogamy, even if they choose monogamy and they're, and all three of them are completely monogamous, like, we support that too. Um, we're not here to convert people. Um, you know, it's the opposite of that actually. Um, that doesn't go well and uh, but just so they so that so they don't have to kind of go through what we did. You know where. You wait until you're in your 40s to really understand who you are and and who you can be yeah, yeah, the fear and the shame and the.
Ellecia: 47:46
Let's hide these parts of ourselves because people that love us won't accept us and or that it has to be.
Dan: 47:53
You know one thing forever whether it's your sexuality, you know that it can't flow like there's not fluidity to it.
Ellecia: 48:00
All right, so yeah, you get to change your mind. Yeah, it's kind of nice. I love that. Tell me, tell me, what are you, what are you doing now you're? You mentioned your work yeah.
Dan: 48:10
So jenny and I, well, we started, uh, water's edge ceremonies. Well, we really started about a couple years ago. So I had written down in my journal, but but I don't. So backstory for everybody else, backstory on that. Yeah, as I'm having conversations with you and you're like, did you journal about this? I'm like no, but today I just went and I wrote like a letter and wrote all my feelings down.
Dan: 48:40
I'm like fuck. So now it's like pages and different books, depending on where I'm going and what I have with me. Um, so, yeah, so the journaling piece I was, I wrote down some goals in early 2022 and didn't really share them with anybody, which I would not recommend. It's actually a good idea to share your goals, because it's really hard to get other people to help you with them if they don't know.
Dan: 49:02
Yeah, um, but luckily the universe was really cool to me that beginning of that year. And uh, jenny was actually so I'd written down like number one I'd love to have a food truck. Now I think that sounds like fun. I don't think that sounds like fun. Six days a week, 52 weeks a year, like I think that might take some of the joy I have in cooking. Um, maybe, maybe not, who knows, maybe that's the next thing we do. But after that I wrote down wedding officiant and I wrote that down because I'd done some funerals and I figured that might be easier to market you how that was going to happen.
Dan: 49:43
But I think it was the year before, two years before, when we were doing some breath work. It was a like an epiphany moment. You know, and I've I've had epiphany moments. Um, you know, oops, there we go not that best with, you know, and theogens and psychedelics and and all that kind of stuff. But it was just in a car, the two of us. Well, you know, and you kind of walked us through this, you know I'm never going to pronounce it right breathing exercise.
Dan: 50:08
So we just kind of reclined back in the car and I was just doing this breathwork and all of a sudden it's like I just sat up and I'm like I threw everything out. You know, I don't it's probably not the right term anymore and my kids catch me on this all the time. But like the baby with the bathwater thing, like I left the church and so that meant my spirituality went to, and that's when I stopped really focusing on that part of my of myself and so, yeah, that that awakening was like okay.
Dan: 50:34
So cause I mean I? I mean I was in my early twenties and I was creating and leading men's retreats for you know, guys that were you know my age now, so when they're, you know they're old, like in their forties and fifties, but I was in my twenties. One was actually my old. One of my old teachers from high school was on a retreat that I helped lead and during that we kind of did a gifts. You know what are your gifts? And mine was, you know, pastoral. That's one of my gifts and I really felt that when I was working at the church, I felt that when I was volunteering at the next church and then I just left and I just kind of left all of that.
Dan: 51:10
And that's like I think why I have felt kind of aimless and directionless career-wise is because I've always been kind of avoiding or just ignoring this other piece of me. That is really who I am Like. I can do a lot of things. I mean I've taught in elementary school, I did computer computers. For a year I've been a youth minister. I worked at a trucking company, I would say. I've operated equipment, but I've moved equipment around. I was in the office, but yeah, just a little bit of everything, but nothing that's like what do you mean?
Ellecia: 51:40
people like what they do.
Dan: 51:52
I don't know what that. What does that mean? I just do what I do because it has to be done, like that's, that's the job, right, and um, yeah, so I just kind of on a whim, it's actually in this book here somewhere below me and I just wrote down wedding officiant and Jenny happened to be away at a um, she goes away with her mom's group still that they've been friends now for 25 years. Like the kids are, like we're going to weddings now is what we would. You know what we do? And, um, jenny didn't really Jenny didn't know I'd written this, written this down as a goal. And so she, kind of hesitantly, reached out and she's like hey, you know, you know so-and-so, their daughter's going to get married there. We're wondering if you would be willing to do the service. She's like you don't have to say there's no pressure. I'm like, actually, let me show you this. Like we took a picture of my goals, I was like that's number two, which probably is really number one. Um, so, yeah, no, the answer is yes. And then it's like then I'll, freaking, figure it out, just kind of my kind of my life story, maybe that's my podcast, and then we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out, and um, and so then it was, you know, and it was a thought that this might be something that I do.
Dan: 52:52
And then we went to go meet with a couple for the first time and, um, you know, because we were all friends, it was like, well, let's just the four of us will meet. Well, it ended up being the mother of the bride was there for every meeting as well, um, which is something we have to learn to navigate. Um, but, you know, gently and uh, we sat down and we started this meeting with this couple and we walked out of that meeting and we're, like, we used to do this all the time, like we used to lead small groups. We were, you know, whether it was kids or other adults. That was definitely something that was like riding a bike, getting back on a bike. It was just like it was. Wow, we didn't really plan that out, we didn't have, we didn't really have like a procedure that we're following on how to do it. We're just kind of winging it. And we walked out of that and like, well, that's how we do this together.
Dan: 53:37
And so she's like I will never get up in front of people to like, perform the ceremony, but connecting with people is what she does, and so she's still kind of my icebreaker. I mean, I do meetings on my own, if it's like, if it's you know, if I know it's just like I'm doing a backyard elopement later this week and that's just. You know, I just needed to contact them. Hey, what do you guys want? This isn't going to be like a series of four meetings to get this dialed in. You know we're going to be a 10 minute ceremony, um, but yeah, so we started doing that and one of the reasons we started was I remember going to my aunt's funeral and she passed away 27 years ago, almost now.
Dan: 54:16
She was in her early forties and went to this funeral and the guy kept mispronouncing her name and it's not like a difficult name, it's like, and I'm just like you guys, I would just, why didn't anybody ask me Like at that point? You know I've done work like this before, um, and so after that I I probably had done besides, just like probably have done like four funerals where I was in on the planning of that. You know, because of that piece, like I, my grandmother's funeral, um, a couple of coworkers, their spouses when they passed, including, you know, did those services as well.
Ellecia: 54:53
And so I was like oh, this is definitely something I can do.
Dan: 54:55
Um, and yeah, something that I'm comfortable with is working around that death piece. That was another partner, that kind of. She was just like, wow, you, really. You know there's this thing called a death doula, right? I'm like, no, I did not even never heard of that. It's like, oh well, this seems like you, because I've sat with people and they've passed as well. So I'm like, oh okay, so this, this, not everybody finds this easy. And so I'm like, okay, well, I can, I can maybe do this. And, um, I think I'd done like a vow renewal for somebody once, but then the church got mad at me. Well, people at the church got mad at me because they don't know what they're talking about. And uh, yeah, so we, that's how we kind of got started.
Dan: 55:35
And then we met a really cool wedding planner at the wedding. We did like she travels all over the world literally doing weddings. She's amazing. And, um, she's like you need to get on a couple of these sites. You know the wedding, wedding wire and the knot. She's just like. I'm like I don't even have a website yet, like I don't even get. I don't think I had business cards yet, but I think we'd maybe had had our name and uh, so now we're up to, I think, 13 weddings off of that this year so far, with, still, we still don't have our website up.
Dan: 56:02
I just picked out our logo, like last week, and uh, so then I'm like, oh okay, so we're going to be busy with this and and it's just, it's been amazing, like it's, it's great for us. We get to meet with couples that are in love and they're getting ready to prepare for this big day. And you know, we have like an hour and a half long Catholic mass for our wedding that we did, and half the probably 70% of the people weren't Catholic and we had 400 people, I think, at our wedding. You know, yeah, yeah, like all these things that we would never do again, and so it's been, it's been good.
Dan: 56:41
And for us, too, it was really like that first wedding that we did it was because the bride's uncle was a priest but wouldn't marry them outside of the church, and I was like, oh well, here's my niche. Like I don't have like the buck stops with Jenny and I Like we can decide if we want to marry you or not. We're not going to have some rule around, you know, you know, you know well we'd have some hard nose like we don't work bigots or things like that. Um, but we're here for our community. You know we can do legal weddings. I can do, hand fasts we can do, you know, naming day celebrations. We can do celebrations of life and funerals. It's just as we kind of grow this it's we have commitment ceremonies.
Ellecia: 57:25
Yeah, yeah, you know so it's.
Dan: 57:26
We're even thinking about doing rent fairs, you know, and all those kinds of things on the weekends, just for fun and to help people celebrate their love.
Dan: 57:33
And so really it's about, you know, we're still working on the exact tagline, but it's, you know, bringing traditions together to create meaningful ceremonies, and that's, you know, whether they, you know they can bring some of those elements, like maybe you want the incense, like I'll go buy an incenser that's actually what they're called and, um, you know, I know, yeah, yeah, I know it's probably some other Latin name that was way cooler, but you know, so we can bring those things and it also allows me to learn more, because it might be something that I'm not familiar with, and I can't wait to learn about that Cause I'm not familiar with and I can't wait to
Ellecia: 58:05
learn about that because I'm kind of a I just want to see, I just want to see um a Ren Faire tent set up. That's, like you know, like Vegas weddings, but like Ren Faire weddings, where you just like like roll them through bring your license, come in.
Dan: 58:18
You know it's a big bada, boom, bada, bing. Like let's do this you know that's amazing. I love that you know, or if it's just like the three of you guys want to hand fast. It's not a legal thing, but let's do this thing. You guys are all here, and so you know I have my Jedi outfit now, so I just did a Star Wars wedding last weekend for May the 4th.
Dan: 58:35
And, uh, that was fun Cause they, the couple, reached out and was like hey, um, you know, so we're getting ready married on Saturday, may the 4th. Um, would you be willing to like maybe put in a reference or two to star Wars? And I was like you have no idea who you just asked this question to like yes, yeah, um. So I wrote an entire ceremony, you know. So, even in the vows it was like I love you. I know, you know, it wasn't even.
Ellecia: 58:59
I love that. You know, Rob and I walked down the aisle to the star Wars music.
Dan: 59:04
That makes sense, but no, I did not know that.
Ellecia: 59:08
We did not. All our processional music was Star Wars music.
Dan: 59:12
There's so much more now too.
Ellecia: 59:13
Like my friends are like kids.
Dan: 59:14
I'm like there was three movies yeah.
Ellecia: 59:18
That was it. That was it. That's all we had until 1999. And they were like oh, let's just make more money, 1999.
Dan: 59:27
And they were like oh, let's just make more money. Um, yeah, it's off of dan because he'll buy everything. Um, so yeah, it was. Uh, so yeah. Finally, I can't believe I didn't have a jedi outfit before. I mean, I have a wookie onesie and I, I mean, like my son and I, did the whole 24-hour marathon when episode 7 came out. We saw all the movies in the theater with a bunch of other I don't know sociopaths, but weirdos and uh yeah, yeah, yeah it was, it was a good idea.
Dan: 59:48
It was not a lot of like nobody felt good afterwards, like that's a lot of popcorn and soda and sitting, you know, but I'm trying to kind of sleep, maybe through a few things, but no, it was bad. So, no, it's been a. It's definitely something that feeds up both of us in our own ways, like and um, I'm getting, you know, getting more and more comfortable not that I was ever uncomfortable getting up in front of people. I mean, I've obviously sang in front of people and spoken in front of people but, um, there's a little more pressure, like this is their wedding. Like I want to get this right.
Ellecia: 1:00:22
You know how do you, do you pronounce your name?
Dan: 1:00:25
Yeah, yeah, like how do you pronounce your name again? Um, so yeah, it's been. It's been super rewarding and we're really excited about like what that looks like in the future for us is, you know, I can only be at one wedding at a time, but I'm, you know, there's also lots of people to get asked to do weddings, you know, by their friends or family and you can, I mean, it's super easy to go get ordained for it, but maybe they don't know or want to know how to actually write the ceremony, and so I'm also available, you know, figuring out how we're going to do that on our site, to be available for either creating ceremonies for people you know that I'm not going to be attending and just kind of helping, you know work through how to do that or doing it for them for a fee or, um, you know, have it coming together like a guidebook for those types, for those types of things.
Dan: 1:01:10
So it's kind of, yeah, that's fun yeah.
Ellecia: 1:01:12
It's it's.
Dan: 1:01:12
It's just so much fun.
Ellecia: 1:01:14
It's super fun. I love that so much. Um, if people want to contact you about that, how should they do so?
Dan: 1:01:30
Um, right now, not on your website, not on our website. I own the domain. It's literally I'm just not like good at creating that piece and so I've got a friend working on it, kind of part-time with that together. And, um, so we're on Facebook at water's edge ceremonies, um, and then, um, wedding wire on the knot, if they're kind of already into their wedding planning, that's where you'll find us as well, and there's a couple of reviews on all of those. And we're on Instagram now too. I did my first reel a couple of weeks ago. Like we're, yeah, I know. Like, yeah, we'll probably want to do maybe some live events, you know, for people to come and ask questions, like ask an officiant, you know, like hey, what are some questions you have and just kind of be available on Facebook for that?
Dan: 1:01:59
Um, but really we we want to grow this into something where maybe quarterly, we're doing um, or, you know, during the fall and winter months, when people aren't in the throes of getting married, we're mostly in the planning phase. So either hosting um, some evenings where we bring some outside experts in, you know anywhere from, like you might have just like a finance, one of the people you have, people who come in and talk about law and finance and what that means when you're getting married, um, what things that you can and can't do or what you should look out for. To having, maybe, as people that do more body work and stuff like that and just having people kind of understanding that about each other. To having relationship coaches and stuff kind of maybe come again Talking about love, languages and all that stuff that we just started learning about on our own and through, you know, working with people. Um, yeah, so, yeah, so it's really. And then you know we'd love to host retreats.
Dan: 1:02:52
We're going to Hawaii at the end of the month to do a vow renewal for some of our friends, so that's going to be a lot of fun, yeah, so it's, yeah, amazing. Yeah, it's. Yeah, we get to go see cool places. And the thing is, what we love about it, too, is we do all the work ahead of time. So day of we get to show up. We may go to a rehearsal the night before, but we're generally done with everything by like seven, like there's still time to go out and get in trouble. It's like we can still have other plans. We're, like you know, for a full-blown wedding coordinator. You might be there from 830 in the morning until you know everything's done and after. So I started mentioning that and Jenny's like you realize what that means. Like yeah, no, we don't want to do that?
Dan: 1:03:30
Nope, I'm not saying never it's never. You know, as Justin Bieber said never say never. I never thought I'd be here, you know. Yeah, you would have told me seven years ago. Hey, you're gonna hop, hop on a podcast and just share all these things about yourself and your relationships.
Ellecia: 1:03:49
Now it's out there to the whole world, yeah.
Dan: 1:03:51
That's how I want to live my life kind of Amazing For the most part.
Ellecia: 1:03:57
Well, I'll put your links in the show notes so people can find you.
Dan: 1:04:02
You're amazing.
Ellecia: 1:04:03
I'm so happy you're here. I've loved watching your journey.
Dan: 1:04:09
You've had like the behind the scenes version of all of most of it for the last seven years. What's Dan doing now?
Ellecia: 1:04:16
Oh, dan, that was a bad decision. It's amazing, it's amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Dan: 1:04:25
Oh my gosh, thanks for having me. It's been a blast, it's absolutely, it's amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Oh my gosh, thanks for having me. It's been a blast, it's absolutely. I mean, anytime we get to chat is great, so like, why not, why not record it?
Ellecia: 1:04:34
See where it goes Exactly.