Unpacking the Relationship Escalator: Lessons from 2 Decades of Ethical Non-Monogamy
What if everything you thought you knew about relationships was wrong? Our guest today has been openly non-monogamous for over 20 years, challenging assumptions about love and intimacy every step of the way. Get ready to question societal rules and create connections that actually work for you.
Over the past two decades, Brandon has navigated the intricacies of open relationships and ethical non-monogamy. He shares his journey - one filled with hard-won lessons on communication, self-awareness, and letting go of expectations. Brandon explains key concepts like relationship anarchy and the "relationship escalator" in plain terms anyone can understand. He's painfully honest about handling jealousy, avoiding common pitfalls, and why you must know yourself before inviting others into an open dynamic.
Tune into this taboo-busting episode to:
The Art of Communication: Brandon will share how he helps people improve their conversation skills to better manage new relationship energy (NRE).
Self-Discovery and Emotional Intelligence: We'll talk about the importance of understanding yourself to better navigate the complexities of polyamorous relationships.
Breaking Free from Social Expectations: Brandon will discuss how stepping outside conventional relationship models can lead to more authentic connections.
What part of Brandon's story are you curious about? Have you faced similar challenges in non-monogamy? I'd love to hear your experiences, so feel free to share!
Do you feel like you could use some help with your relationships?
Get on a free call with Ellecia to see how she can help you move through the challenges of jealousy, fear, anxiety, and insecurities in a way that strengthens your relationships, deepens your trust, and communication, and leaves you feeling confident.
https://elleciapaine.com/call
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Credits
- Host/Producer: Ellecia Paine
- Editor/Producer: Danny Walters
- Hosted on Buzzsprout
TRANSCRIPT:
Ellecia: 0:14
Hey, I'm Ellecia, your non-monogamous relationship coach. Welcome to the podcast where my friends and I chat about our relationships enthusiastic, non-monogamy polyamory, swinging kink and our lives. You'll get a candid peek into what makes it worth it to live life outside the box. And in case you're still wondering, nope, we're not monogamous. Hello, hello, hello. Today I'm excited to chat with Brandon Bunch.
Ellecia: 0:49
Brandon's been navigating the non-monogamous world for over 20 years and his unique role as a hinge in various polyamorous V configurations for more than 15 years has given him a pretty deep understanding of what it takes to make these relationships work, especially when it comes to the emotional and the communication skills involved. Brandon's really passionate about helping people who are feeling stuck in a loop of unsuccessful dating in the poly community, and he focuses on shifting them from a place of confusion and frustration to becoming more emotionally aware and more adept at communicating. So his mission is to help people feel more energized and free and at peace and setting them up to intentionally build their dream relationship dynamics. As you can guess, we have a lot in common. So a couple of things you're going to hear today the art of communication Brandon's going to share some tips on how he helps people improve their conversation skills to manage new relationship. Energy, nre, some self-discovery and emotional intelligence tips. We're going to talk about the importance of understanding yourself better to navigate all of the complexities of polyamorous relationships, and Brandon's also going to share some uh, some ways to break free from social expectations so that you can have, like deeper, more authentic connections.
Ellecia: 2:08
I would love to hear what part of Brandon's story and this episode uh resonates the most with you. Send me an email, drop us a review. I'd love to hear your experiences and let's jump into this conversation with Brandon. Enjoy, I did it. Amazing, okay, cool. So, um, welcome to. Nope, we're Not Monogamous.
Brandon: 2:39
I'm really glad that you're here. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Ellecia: 3:06
Yeah, yeah, but I don't. So what is your experience with non-monogamy? What's your relationship style?
Brandon: 3:14
So for me, I've been in non-monogamy for gosh over 20 years. Yeah, I got started pretty much while I was in the military back in 2003, 2004. So yeah, it's been about 20 years and just kind of stumbled into it and it's been something that I've been doing ever since I got into the community. When I got out of the military here in the Seattle area, I got into the local community and started volunteering and going to events and just been doing it it that way ever since. As far as relationship styles, I've been a hinge in a V pretty much for over about like 15 years. I met my first partner, amanda, shortly after I got into the community and we've been dating ever since. And then I've had a couple of second partners that came along. Some of them came and went, but my current partner that I'm with now, who's basically my nesting partner we've been together for about eight years.
Ellecia: 4:42
Wow, I love that. What branch of the military were you in?
Brandon: 4:46
I was in the Air Force.
Ellecia: 4:47
Ah, okay, you know, I've heard rumor that swinging started in the Air Force.
Brandon: 4:54
That's kind of what I found out too. That's what I heard too.
Ellecia: 4:58
Uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I heard too uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I heard was the origination of swinging was, like you know, take, take care of my, take care of my wife while I'm gone please, yeah, yeah, yeah, because they didn't know for sure if pilots were, you know, if they were like there are people who have been non-monogamous, polyamorous, like for a long time, like that, but it's not.
Ellecia: 5:28
You don't hear about them very often, um, you know, most people don't get to talk to them. Most people are like, yeah, like five years or newer, right, but? But like most people that I talk to are like, yeah, I was married for a decade and then we opened up and then things expanded from there. Um, so so I love that. I love being able to share stories that happen another way, right, like Rob and I have never been monogamous together and we've been together 10 years, um, and we just started our relationship open.
Brandon: 6:08
Um, but, but, but not you know 15 years. I will say like it flew by, like it's not one of those things that was like planned. It was definitely um, you know, it's like the next thing. I know it's me and amanda were talking and she's like you realize we've been together, for I think at the time it was like she's like we've been together for like 10 years. It's just like holy crap, it has been 10 years that's amazing yeah that is amazing.
Ellecia: 6:31
I love that. Um what? Okay, I'm okay. Then I'm curious what? What did that like that first 10 years? Look like that. You were like, oh really, it's been 10 years.
Brandon: 6:54
We were really entrenched in the community because we both lived here in the Seattle area Well, here in Washington, say, shouldn't live in the Seattle area but we went to a lot of events together, we did a lot of those things together and so our relationship style is kind of more on the relationship anarchy side. Yeah, so there wasn't a lot of hierarchy or anything. It was more of just kind of talking a lot with each other and, you know, talking through things and sharing a lot of experiences. You know, hey, I went and did this, I had fun. How was your day? Like, oh, I went and did this, I had fun. How was your day? Oh, I went and did this, that was fun. We tried to do a lot of activities together, those first about eight to 10 years.
Ellecia: 8:01
That's um. So then I want to ask you, I want to ask, I want to draw on your uh experience, um, what would you say are some of?
Brandon: 8:19
the like what are the most valuable lessons that you learned in that you know, in this timeframe on um, on communication, especially having that like RA relationship anarchy style so sorry about my dogs, they're barking there, I don't know if you heard them or not I think the biggest things that I've learned is how valuable communication is and how hard it is. It is so easy to think you know we've done all the communication we need to do and you know that we've gotten our point across, and then you find out like no, it didn't come across exactly as you thought. Or you know your partner or somebody else was thinking that you said one thing when really you meant something else. So that was definitely one of the big lessons. Um, another big lesson is um, the other big lessons that I've learned is that, uh, you know it's so much about your internal health and your internal mental side of things and doing a lot of self-work. God, yeah, yeah.
Ellecia: 9:29
If people in all relationship styles did more of that.
Brandon: 9:35
Yeah, that's been my crutch. Whenever somebody has come and asked me about advice about this stuff, that's one of the first things I start talking about. Okay, well, what do you know about yourself? You know? Do you know why you want to do this? Do you know what do you want to do? You know what is your goal? What does this look like? You know, and so many people, people that's where I get the pause and the whole like I never thought about that I just thought it would be cool yeah, you know sounds hot yeah exactly sounds better than what I've got going on now yeah, yeah so
Brandon: 10:16
well, they're in first prize yeah, that's definitely the barometer, like okay, well then, you know, we got some work to do, you know yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, totally.
Ellecia: 10:32
communication it's um, I almost like when I'm working with clients, I'm just like, okay, forget this word communication. It's not real. I mean it's real, but like it, it it's used as like. It's like people think that it means this thing like talk more, like use find better words, or you know, and I'm like, no, that's not what, that's not what it is. You don't need to talk more, you need to communicate better and hear each other Pay attention.
Brandon: 11:02
Yeah, totally.
Ellecia: 11:06
Reframe back to your partner what you think you just heard, to be sure that what you heard is what they really meant.
Brandon: 11:11
Yeah, exactly, definitely. One of the techniques I picked up was mirroring. One of the techniques I picked up was mirroring and mirroring helps you know my, even outside of my relationship, the conversations I started happening having when I mirrored things back to people. It helps so much clear up you know, problems and whatnot so.
Ellecia: 11:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you mirror back to people the things that they say, it really helps clear up a lot of problems, right? Yeah, yeah, as an example, Awesome, Um, what, what? What would you say over this? Um, all your half a lifetime of experience, what would you say has been like the biggest challenge or struggle in being non-monogamous?
Brandon: 12:09
Um, hmm, I think, if I could boil it down to one thing, probably the biggest struggle has been separating myself from society's expectations of what we're supposed to be and how relationships are supposed to look, and finding out what I actually wanted. And finding out what I actually wanted. You know, that feels like it's a journey of just continually like, oh, we're going to tweak it a little here and tweak it a little there. You know, I'm still discovering stuff about what I want. You know, 20 years on, and you know, maybe there's no end point to it, I don't know, but it's been a fun ride and it's definitely a journey, but I think it's an important one.
Ellecia: 14:36
Um, you know, I mean, I was married monogamously for 13 years and what I wanted at the beginning? Of that 13 years was vastly different from what I wanted for my life at the end of that 13 years. Lots of growth, lots of learning. How do you, how do you, how do you pull apart what society says you should be doing and what you really want, like, how do you, how do you figure that out?
Brandon: 14:56
For me it was. I kind of had a little bit of a leverage because for me, being somebody who is Black in America, I always have to look at things from that lens, and so one of the other things that I learned is that all the issues that I have with the outside world as far as racial injustice and stereotypes and things that I faced, then you know they follow me wherever I go and there is no escape by going into polyamory or non-monogamy and you know being like oh, I'm safe from all that, like no, you still face it. There in the community. I learned to look at things differently and I learned to be able to gather as much information as possible. So that way I can, you know, learn it, basically learn how people do things differently. You know I learned about non-monogamy and other cultures and other ways that they did things, and it kind of gave me, you know, illumination on like oh, so this isn't just a western american thing, there's other people who are doing this. This is the way they do it over there and there's some similarities but there's also some differences. So that helped and it you know things in monogamy, you know realizing the relationship escalator, you know, and our expectation of you know, when you're serious about a relationship, this is what you're supposed to be doing, and how much that affects you because it doesn't hit you at first.
Brandon: 16:48
I hear people talk about the relationship escalator all the time and I don't think they realize how much of that you're still doing, even though you may say, oh, I'm not worried about having a boyfriend or girlfriend or living together or whatever. But there's other things that they'll keep. You know they'll get to, they'll talk about doing a threesome and they'll be like you know. Well, I just want to make sure my couple you know, my relationship with my partner is still safe. You know, and it's like that's very couple centrics, uh-huh. You know, and it's like that, that's very couple centric. You know, you've got a third person involved there. You've got to actually bring them into that and think about them too.
Brandon: 17:35
You know whole human who has their own reasons for being there exactly yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, would you?
Ellecia: 17:44
I would love? I would love to hear this, um, like, how would you define the relationship escalator, or how would you explain it to someone?
Brandon: 17:53
I was trying to explain this thing to them. It's basically the process of going. It's like a step-by-step process of going through a relationship that you people, in at least american society, have come to expect. You know, um, we expect somebody, when you meet somebody and you click with them, that you go on dates. And then after the dates, if you really click, then you put the label on, you know, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever, then you go to, you know you have to move in together and then after that then you think about getting a dog or some kind of pet.
Ellecia: 18:47
You know, then you get married, you must care for other beans, yeah.
Brandon: 18:50
You know it's, it's all these steps that I think I think we think of as very important steps, because I think it kind of feeds off the idea of the way we look at life. You know, like you have you grow from a kid to an adolescence and as a teenager there's certain things you've got to do. You've got to learn to drive, you know you've got to go to school. So we think of life in all those steps and I think we just kind of as humans, we think, oh, relationships are kind of the same way, yeah, yeah, like what's next? Where is this going?
Ellecia: 19:29
And also, I think I think very much like a Western society, especially American, like like our culture of productivity right, I hear so often people go, even non-monogamous people, like polyamorous people, will be dating, they'll have multiple partners, but but still be going well. Where is this relationship going? Yeah, like, right, like is this a dead-end relationship or or what, what? What are the the things that are going to happen that make let me know that I'm special and cared about and loved and that I'm important to them at all? And they're still looking for those milestones, like the next thing, which there's no presence and no gratitude or satisfaction in what I have right now. It's this constant. What's the next thing? So I can keep being productive, even in my love and sex life?
Brandon: 20:14
Yeah, and the things that are really holy should be your own. You know, yes, and I think a lot of that also has to do with our capitalist society. We are so focused on how much like you said productivity and how much can we produce and how much value can we give out, but it's funny that we just don't think of it that way. I think we're all just indoctrinated into just this is how it is, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ellecia: 20:52
When I think of the relationship escalator, it's funny because I like, as you're describing that, I'm like, yeah, like you meet, you fall in love, you merge your lives in some way you care for other beings.
Brandon: 21:02
Um, and then like that's kind of it, then it's just, and then, and then we die like we like some time passes and then we die and then we did it right and there's this like big chunk of time that isn't really laid out for us grandkids, I guess, is kind of the big thing yeah, it's kind of I feel like sometimes, especially when you hear people talk about it, it's as if we we go like I don't really have to really put much effort into thinking about this, it should all just come. I hear some people talk about well, if you really love somebody, you'll just know. It'll just be easy.
Ellecia: 21:51
Yeah, then they weren't the right one.
Brandon: 21:54
Yeah, but any other relationship? It's funny. You talk about a business relationship or a friendship, completely different mindset. Then it's like no, you guys should really talk it out. You should work through this, you should collaborate have conversations decide whether this is still working.
Ellecia: 22:17
decide whether this is still working.
Brandon: 22:20
It's like, guys, if you apply that to your personal relationships and your sexual ones, you might find some yeah.
Ellecia: 22:28
Yeah, totally, totally, that's that's. That's the thing. I think, um, and I think that that's the one of the big like even though even people who are non monogamous are still have, have we have so much conditioning that is like just those roots are just dug in so deep that, even when we aren't aware of them, we're still doing some of that. Yeah, so many assumptions and so many ways that we think life is going to go.
Brandon: 23:00
Yeah.
Ellecia: 23:02
But, like, when you step outside of that box and you start unpacking some of these ideas that you have, like wait, is that what I even want? Do I really believe that? Yeah, like, that's probably one of my favorite things about not being monogamous is like having to dig into the ideas that I had about love and relationships and friendships and what makes people important in your life.
Brandon: 23:30
Yeah, and it's really can be exciting. You know, so staunchly against non-monogamy. Um, just right off the bat, you know I've heard so many people will be like, oh God, I could never do that. You know, yeah, I'd kill my boyfriend if he ever asked me. But I was like, okay, look like really murder.
Brandon: 23:53
Yeah, or I got a lot or I got a lot, especially because I was very, when I first got into it I was like you know I'm, I was dating one person, but I was kind of more in a comet kind of situation, so I felt like I still had the freedom to be able to talk about it and kind of be an ambassador for it. And you know so, at work I was just like, yeah, I'm Polly, I have multiple partners and whatnot, and people would ask me about it and they felt comfortable coming up to me and, like always, one of the first couple of questions was like I could never do that. I'm way too jealous. You know, this is like you know you can like work. Do that, I'm way too jealous. You know, this is like you know you can like work.
Ellecia: 24:42
Through that, you can feel like yep, that's an emotion you're experiencing, yeah, yeah, my the listeners of the show who have heard me say probably every episode, that I've always been a very jealous and possessive person and like, if I can do it, you can do it, I promise, yeah.
Brandon: 25:02
Yeah.
Ellecia: 25:03
Yep, yep, yep, yep. It's like. It's like you know, and I and I have heard people who are polyamorous or non-monogamous say like, oh, I'm not jealous, or I don't experience, I haven't experienced that. I'm like there are people who who don't experience jealousy, like there are also people who don't experience jealousy, like there are also people who don't experience happiness.
Brandon: 25:22
That's not the norm yeah, yeah and it's also the average experience.
Brandon: 25:26
Yeah, and I've I've definitely discovered that there's there's a spectrum on that too, because there's definitely some things where I have no problem with like, if my partner, if my partner, if my partner, uh, t was like, hey, I'm going to go on a date with you know, this new guy that I met, I have no problems with her saying that there's no internal conflict for me. I'm like great, have fun, be safe. You know, let me know when you get there. So I know that you're okay. Fine, fine, you know.
Brandon: 26:02
But having an experience where one of my former partners they were a musician, they were on a, they were having a gig and you know, I took the time to drive up to see them play their gig and everything and I was thinking that like, oh, after she does her gig, we're gonna drive up to see them play their gig and everything.
Brandon: 26:19
And I was thinking that like, oh, after she does her gig, we're gonna go and hang out and I'm gonna spend the night and blah. Well, it turns out like after that gig, they had really connected with somebody while they were on stage and, you know, talked with them before the gig started and everything, and my partner came up to me and was like, so I'm gonna go do a date with them for a little bit if you're cool with it. You know, I mean, yeah, there were some issues with how that went down, you know, definitely some things. That time I was thinking like, oh, I don't get jealous. And then like, nope, I got jealous, you know. But we worked through it and you know I took some time out to process my feelings and I just realized that it was like you. You know, I had thought I had made the assumption that I was going to be the partner of that I, instead of talking with them first.
Ellecia: 27:27
Yeah. You know, yeah, oh yeah, those expectations right.
Brandon: 27:31
Yep.
Ellecia: 27:33
That's always the worst. I have these expectations and then that is not what happens and I'm like, yeah, oh, oh, ok, is not what? Happens and I'm like oh, oh okay, okay, yeah, exactly Anything wrong necessarily.
Brandon: 27:45
Yeah, exactly.
Ellecia: 27:46
I feel not good.
Brandon: 27:48
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ellecia: 27:50
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, the having the emotional intelligence and self-awareness to be able to work through moments like that. I think that's where the magic is.
Brandon: 28:07
Yeah, yeah, I think those are the magic words emotional intelligence. I would love to just give that to everybody who has a relationship with me. We all need to work on this, yeah.
Ellecia: 28:22
Yeah, yeah, and it's a skill Like you have to practice it kind of like you know. It's like like doing crosswords to make your brain stronger. You have to like do big emotional and my partner calls it emotional weightlifting.
Brandon: 28:35
Oh yeah, that's great.
Ellecia: 28:36
You have to do some emotional weightlifting to build up those muscles.
Brandon: 28:39
Yeah, yeah.
Ellecia: 28:41
Yeah, and if you always avoid, like, if you're just always avoiding things that are uncomfortable or like might trigger some jealousy or some anxiety or sadness, yeah. Like if you just avoid them, you're just going to have some weak ass muscles.
Brandon: 28:54
No, that's, so true yeah.
Ellecia: 28:56
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, amazing, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, amazing, amazing. Okay, I'm curious Would you say that polyamory or non-monogamy is a choice, or an identity or an orientation?
Brandon: 29:22
I think now I think this is going to sound like I've been sitting, but I'm not. I think there's actually a spectrum to it, because for me I you know, looking back on my past relationships or anything like I was like this from the beginning, like even I mean, I was young, when I was. I started doing poly when I was probably like 23, 24. And prior to that, I mean, yeah, I was a um, you know, I did a little bit of dating when I was a teenager and then in my early 20s, but I was still doing serial monogamy. I just had no idea that polyamory of this thing existed. But my thought was always at that time I don't understand why I can't flirt, date or even kiss multiple people.
Brandon: 30:16
When it got to the more intimate stuff in the relationships, that kind of started to make a little bit more sense. But I still was like I'm pretty intimate with a lot of my friends. You know, we, we go to movies together and do things together, and I don't always bring all my friends to do those things, you know. So I kind of feel like for some people it's definitely an identity. Um, now, as far as the science part of it, I'm not a scientist, so I can't get into that. But, um, I think colloquially, yeah, it's, it's can be an identity for some and for other people. I think it's just a choice, yeah.
Ellecia: 30:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I I tend to agree with that. Um, just like many other things are on a on a spectrum, right, Like, like I'm queer, but I mean I definitely, definitely lean more towards desiring people with penises than not. So I don't think that makes me not queer, right, and there was a time where where I definitely felt like monogamy was the only way I could be and had no idea that there was another option and did my best to be monogamous.
Brandon: 31:35
Yeah.
Ellecia: 31:36
And then when I found out there were other things I could do, I was like, oh well, perhaps there are other ways I can be right, yeah yeah, yeah, as somebody else who's also queer, yeah, I could totally feel that.
Brandon: 31:52
You know, I I lean more towards them presenting people, but it's not like I don't have an attraction towards mass presenting people at all, you know, because I definitely do, you know, and so, yeah, it's a goes across and it flows and it's you. You know, some days I'm definitely more attracted to mask presenting people and other days I'm just like the normal femme presenting yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ellecia: 32:27
Totally, totally, totally. I also I always like to tell people because I don't think I actually I have this come up with clients quite a bit like um recently a lot actually where people, um, who have a couple, like a nesting relationship, a marriage, whatever, they have an open relationship of some sort, whether it's polyamory, swinging, whatever right they're they are open, and yet life has presented them with time restraints, emotional restraints, illnesses, and they're like well, should we close up? I'm like do you want to? And they're like well, no, but like one or both of us aren't doing non-monogamy in this moment, so does that mean we are now monogamous?
Brandon: 33:11
Yeah.
Ellecia: 33:12
I'm like no, like you don't have to be fucking everyone you could possibly fuck. To be non monogamous, like it still exists. Sometimes we don't have the time, sometimes we don't have the emotional bandwidth, it's fine conditioning and this monogamous mindset that we have, that you know like.
Brandon: 33:41
If we're going to identify identify as this thing, then we have to be constantly doing it and that's not true. You know, you can. You know I'm not dating any mass presenting person right now, you know. So you know it doesn't you must be straight yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ellecia: 34:03
It kind of goes back to the productivity thing, right? Like if I want to identify as a slut, I have to be a really productive slut. Yeah, wait a minute, I am now chased, right.
Brandon: 34:19
If.
Ellecia: 34:19
I take a break long enough. I'll be a virgin again.
Brandon: 34:22
Right.
Ellecia: 34:25
Yeah, it's amazing. Okay, what would you say makes relationships successful?
Brandon: 34:39
Successful.
Ellecia: 34:41
Yeah.
Brandon: 34:41
It's probably going to sound like a broken record, but it's really. I think it's the internal introspection that the relationships that I've had the most problem with are the ones where I just refused to or avoided doing any kind of internal introspection and looking into what was going on and how I was feeling, what my goals were. You know um not doing that, I think, is what led to a lot of problems or continues to exacerbate any problems. You know um not doing that, I think, is what led to a lot of problems or continues to exacerbate any problems, you know so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I also not doing that.
Brandon: 35:28
You know that the internal work leads, leads people into getting into relationships that aren't relationships for them anyways yeah right like this was never gonna work and I just was like there's a person yeah, yeah, you're not realizing that, like you don't need to be in the relationship with this person like these feelings that you're having. You know, because it's very possible you have feelings that they're all just, you know, maybe sexual or maybe intimacy driven, and it's okay for that just to be. That's what that relationship is about. It doesn't have to be a full blown, you know, partnership kind of thing.
Ellecia: 36:09
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, totally, totally. Just because I have feelings doesn't mean I have to act on it Right. Just because you're mad doesn't mean you have to punch the wall. Just because you're horny doesn't mean you have to have sex with someone.
Brandon: 36:21
Yeah, I always think of people like some people talk about like having you know being so passionate about things, sorry, um, I always tell people, like, dude, I could have sex with just about anybody. You know there's a bunch of my friends that I could totally have sex with, but I don't, because either they don't want to time restraints, bandwidth, you know all that stuff.
Ellecia: 36:57
So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, I have to act on all of them.
Ellecia: 37:04
Uh, that kind of um.
Ellecia: 37:08
I had a conversation with someone recently where we were talking about attraction, right and like, and, and we had both come to the the conclusion, I guess, the realization that, like I can be sexually attracted to someone, but, you know, maybe I'm not romantically attracted to them, maybe I don't even find them to be like aesthetically pleasing, but I'm like horny for them.
Ellecia: 37:35
Or I might find someone to be really beautiful but have, like no sexual attraction to them. Or I might just like love someone's personality and like just really want to, like spend time with them and they make me laugh and like I have just like this deep romantic um attraction to them, but but maybe they don't make me horny, right, like, like there's all of these different ways that we, that we experience people and it's like I think I think a lot of people and I and I think this goes back to the relationship escalator I think that if you have experienced any of those types of attraction, then you must do a thing with them, and then if all three of those types of attraction aren't there, then there's something wrong.
Brandon: 38:15
Yeah.
Ellecia: 38:16
Yeah.
Brandon: 38:17
Yeah. Or if you have it with, you know, being sexually attracted to one person but only intimately attracted to somebody else, then the oh, there's a problem with you. It's like, no, you're just experiencing all the different ways that our relationships can be. Yeah.
Ellecia: 38:39
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Totally, Totally Okay. What? No, I'm not going to ask you that. Well, now I'll tell you. Because I said that? Because I was going to say what is one thing that anybody can do for free to have better relationships. But I think that's that same answer. Right, Go back and do the do the inner work.
Brandon: 38:59
Yeah, it's. It comes back to what I. What I recommend to folks because I don't think a lot of people do it is that you write down what you're feeling and what you want and basically write down your why for why you're doing stuff.
Brandon: 39:17
I think a lot of people, especially when I talk to people who are at the beginning. You know, I have a lot of cis men that come up to me and they're like you know. I see you've got multiple partners. I would love to experience that. I just want to get a threesome, or I just want to have another girlfriend, and you know they're like you know, just want to have another girlfriend, and you know they're like you know. So how can I get that going? It's like why do you want to do it? Well, you know, and they look at me as like obviously, because it's like no, dude, you really need to figure this out, because it's not going to work out the way you think it is.
Brandon: 39:55
You know, there's a lot of people I see every day that I could totally get down with sexually or intimately, but realistically on a relationship level it's not going to work. And if I don't know why it's not going to work, I'm just going to be constantly dating and getting dumped and dating and getting dumped. You know, yeah, yeah.
Ellecia: 40:17
Yeah, yeah, totally Writing it down. I think that that's a really good, a really good tool to use, because because our brains are full of all sorts of thoughts that just kind of swim around like fish in a pond and when you can like, catch them. When you can catch them, they become more real.
Brandon: 40:39
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Ellecia: 40:42
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. Um, I know that you work in this uh similar arena as I do. Um, will you talk a little bit about that for our listeners? Like what, what is it that you do? How do you help people?
Brandon: 41:02
I basically help people who are looking to try and start building their relationship structure that they want. You know, I think a lot of people are totally good with finding the information about polyamory and finding cause. There's tons of books, one-on-one level books. But I find that, uh, a lot of people are having problems after they know all the definitions and all the terms and they've dated a few times and they're like I want like a triad or I want a quad or a polycule, and they don't know how to get that. You know, because there's kind of a gap there and I think we've kind of let a lot of people just kind of go off of experience and just kind of stumble through it. So I try to help people with that figuring out which is why I talk about, you know, figuring out your why. So that way you can have a goal set up to. This is kind of what I want you know, and then we go from there and work on yourself so that way you can eventually achieve that.
Ellecia: 42:13
Yeah, yeah, and also like what is going to be worth putting in all this work, cause it's a lot of work, yeah.
Brandon: 42:25
And whether or not you want the actual relationship or whether you just want to have like a bunch of sex, which is totally fine, yeah, but you gotta know.
Ellecia: 42:35
Yep, yep, yep, yep, exactly, exactly, um. How can people find you?
Brandon: 42:41
Um, so you can contact me on Instagram at coach underscore Brandon underscore B Uh. I also have a Facebook page, uh, and I should be able to find it under uh. Coach underscore Brandon underscore B as well.
Ellecia: 42:57
Awesome, awesome, and those will be in the in the show notes, if people just want to link to it. Um. I have one more question for you, and this um doesn't go on the main episode. It goes, uh, to our supporters on patreon at patreoncom. Slash not monogamous, and this segment is just the tip. And it is what is your? What is a favorite or best sex tip that you could give the listeners? Amazing.
Brandon: 43:27
We did the thing. Thank you so much for coming on.
Ellecia: 43:34
This has been fun, absolutely. We did the thing. Thank you so much for coming on. This has been fun.
Brandon: 43:40
Absolutely, it's been my pleasure.
Ellecia: 43:45
And that was Brandon Bunch with his Just the Tip If you didn't catch that gem, head over to patreoncom slash, not monogamous to join our exclusive circle of friends and lovers. I am currently uploading some exclusive content just for you, and by becoming a Patreon supporter, you're going to get access to the behind the scenes and bonus content that we keep just for our community Plus. I'm about to drop some new extras that you don't want to miss out on. So again, patreoncom slash, not monogamous. To get signed up. It's more than a subscription. It's your ticket to deeper insights, better connections and a little more about what's going on with me. Thanks for listening today. Bye.