Delighting in Self-Connection with Lee Harrington
Are you tired of feeling disconnected from yourself and others? What if there was a way to build a unique web of relationships that truly support your well-being and growth? Well, we're here to tell you that it's possible! In my discussion with internationally known author and educator, Lee Harrington, we uncover the secrets to creating intentional, supportive relationships and fostering self-love.
Discover how finding a balance between hyper-independence and codependence can lead to flourishing connections within communities. Lee shares their journey to self-love and self-connection through their new book, Become Your Own Beloved: A Guide to Delighting and Self-Connection. We also dive into the concept of New Relationship Energy, discussing how it can be experienced during various stages of relationships and the courage it takes to embrace new possibilities.
Lastly, we explore the importance of listening to all voices within our relationships, including our own, as we navigate the world of polyamory. Learn how changing our minds can help build relationships more compatible with our lives, and the significance of self-love in these connections. Don't miss this enlightening and inspiring conversation that will leave you with a new perspective on self-love, relationships, and community.
An award-winning author and editor on gender, sexual, and sacred experience, his many books include “Sacred Kink: The Eighfold Paths of BDSM and Beyond,” “Shibari You Can Use: Japanese Rope Bondage and Erotic Macrame,” and “Traversing Gender: Understanding Transgender Journeys.” You can check out Lee’s adventures, as well as his podcast, tour schedule, free essays, videos, and more, over at PassionAndSoul.com.
Want to connect with Lee?
PassionandSoul.com
IG:@passionandsoul
FB: passionandsoul
📚 Books mentioned:
Become Your Own Beloved, by Lee Harrington
The Ethical Slut, by Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy
Do you feel like you could use some help with your relationships?
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https://elleciapaine.podia.com/clarity-chat
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Credits
- Host/Producer: Ellecia Paine
- Editor/Producer: Danny Walters
- Hosted on Buzzsprout
Transcript:
Ellecia : 0:21
Hey, I'm Ellecia, your non-monogamous relationship coach. Welcome to the podcast where my friends and I chat about our relationships enthusiastic, non-monogamy polyamory, swinging kink and our lives. You'll get a candid peek into what makes it worth it to live life outside the box. And in case you're still wondering, nope, we're not monogamous. Hello, hello, hello. Today, Lee Harrington's joining me. Lee's an internationally known author and educator whose new book Become Your Own Beloved A Guide to Delighting and Self-Connection, was just released. This book has invaluable practices like how to examine the labels placed on you, how to forgive yourself for any regrets or missteps, exercises to help you learn to celebrate yourself as a whole being and have more fulfilling relationships with others, find support in community. But we also talked about how Lee's figured all this out and their own relationship challenges right. We talked about the importance of reassessing your beliefs and your preferences and how it applies to relationships with yourself and others, romantic and otherwise, And Lee emphasized the importance of being gentle with yourself and practicing self-love and self-relationship, which is just not something that comes naturally for most of us and that most of us have been taught how to do. Most of our parents haven't set good examples of that, So this is just really, really lovely. He brings a combination of playful engagement and thoughtful dialogue that anybody could understand. He's taught classes and shared presentations and delivered keynotes worldwide, So I am honored and delighted to have him on the show. I really hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did And, if so, leave us a review. That would mean the world to me. When you leave reviews, it tells other people they should also listen, And then that spreads the ideas and concepts of non-monogamy, so that it's not something that just us weirdos are doing. Right, Do your part in making it a little more well-known. Enjoy the show. Recording is in progress. Okay, cool, Hi again. I am really excited that you're here. I think it was Delphine that said, hey, you should check this out and be on Ellecia's podcast. She was on a few months ago, So that was cool. I'm so happy you're here. Thank you for coming on.
Lee: 3:08
It is such a delight. I'm surprised, in all of the years I've been doing this stuff, that we haven't had a chance to cross over. But that's the beauty of the internet and the world that we're in, right People from across the globe go wait, you're doing similar stuff to me. That's so exciting, so I'm glad to get to be here as well.
Ellecia : 3:28
Totally, totally. That's amazing. Excuse me, okay, i first and foremost would love to hear We're going to talk about your book, but first I would love to know about your relationship style. How do you identify What's your relationship philosophy?
Lee: 3:56
Yeah, It has ebbed and flowed so much over the past 30 years, And I would say that right now I am consensually non-monogamous and have a deep web of friends around the world, some of whom occasionally are play partners or lovers. But that is not the focus. The focus is love and affection and attention and connection, And beyond that the rest of it fills itself in.
Ellecia : 4:29
Beautiful. I love that so much. It's so good.
Lee: 4:35
So good. I'm very blessed to have an amazing partner who lives in the same town as me We actually just had our two-year anniversary And that's where, i'd say, the bulk of my time and focus in relationship and partnership goes. But for me, having this collection of humans everywhere from my mother's best friend to a play partner I've had for 20 years on and off, to people that I know and get to see at conferences from time to time I would not be the same person without all of them in my world in some way, shape or form, even if some of them are what I call Tupperware relationships which, for those of you who were around and watched television back in the 80s and 90s might know what I'm talking about where you go still fresh, right, and when you open them back up, you haven't seen a friend in five years and suddenly, yeah. So I think for me it's that web, that connection.
Ellecia : 5:38
Oh, i love that so much.
Lee: 5:40
I think that that is one of the things that's really missing culturally, like as a whole, is this deep community right and having people that you can relate to without having to put up these big walls and barriers and boundaries of like you're not in my romantic relationship so I cannot give you my emotional energy Right And to have for me to have that be multi-generational, to have that be whether that's social generations or remembering the people we cared about in high school right, being able to have the generations of our own lifetime as well as, even though my mother has passed, being able to reach out to Katie and Shirley and her dear web and still say you matter. Or to be able to turn to my father's, brother's children, who are technically my cousins but are literally 30 years difference than me, because I'm the child of the oldest, they're the children of the youngest and get to be either peers or connections with them. That I think you said it really well that just because you're romantic doesn't mean you should not be able to have access to intimacy. And for me, that idea why are we creating lines between biological family as compared to family of the heart? and to remember all of these as we're doing this stuff.
Ellecia : 7:17
Yeah, yeah, oh, that's so good. It makes me think I work with a lot of, especially couples that are like opening up, or people who are just starting to explore what else they can do besides monogamy, and so many of the challenges that they bump up against are, like the levels of intimacy that you're allowed to have or not allowed to have, like the hierarchy that just even if you're not a couple, there's still this hierarchy of emotional involvement that you can have with them, right.
Lee: 8:00
Yeah, And the mythology of this is my best friend and you're only allowed one. Yeah, Yeah, Right, And I mean I just gave an example, Katie and Shirley where my mom's two best friends And the three of them often went out for Mexican food every single month, and because there was a place that my mother loved the margaritas, like all of that kind of stuff. Right, that there was a mythology that you have to have a best friend, but what's it like to have two? Or if you're dating someone and have a best friend and have that co-worker that you love spending time with, do we have to put them in a hierarchy? Do we have to say this one is better than that one? And then we add our relationship with ourselves, and it's like wait, where do I get to prioritize me in any of this web? or my children or my? you know where is this story coming from And unfortunately, a lot of the story is coming from toxic capitalism and how it manifested in the US in the 40s and 50s. But even if we look at it today, I think for me having the courage to pause on occasion and say, oh, this is what I'm doing, This is what's happening right now. I'm perpetuating a story that's actually not really my beliefs. Right, I'm perpetuating a story that says, oh, I have to have my romantic partner be what I focus on 100% of the time, as compared to my partner and I sitting down and being like actually, both of us need to not see each other two to three nights a week, even if we live in the same house. We need time to have time with our friends, with our spiritual practice right to pause and be able to go to wherever it is. We're doing that work without it being a story that I am not caring about them, That that story doesn't have to be present. But, God, that story is so easy. That story is so easy to fall into. Growing up in the US, It really is.
Ellecia : 10:22
Yeah, yeah, holy cow. It's almost like codependency is just really celebrated and baked in Right, just baked into everything. You have to do everything together If you want time apart, if you want to be your own individual, autonomous person for a moment. Even then there must be something wrong.
Lee: 10:50
I think there's this extra piece with the notion of codependency of is it conscious? Because if I choose conscious interdependence, right, i say I want to and mesh 40% of myself with this person. Or I do want to, like we've sat down, the three of us, or two of us, or seven of us, i don't know, whatever your structure is, but I've sat down and decided, and the group of us have sat down and decided we do want to do everything together. We are that kind of collective consciousness. But that's different than tripping and falling into it. I think that's different than doing it because you think that's the only way to do it or because that's what you saw in front of the scene. Your parents do, but most children never saw what was happening behind the scenes. No, and so I think, because I sometimes see people who are polyamorous or consciously non-monogamous or any of these various structures, i see some folks almost start proselytizing, saying, oh, you have to leave all of these things. You can't you. You have to do everything on your own, which perpetuates in turn the story that the collective of known as the two of us or the three of us, or our entire community of friends and family, that those don't matter, you have to be a separate entity, And I think there's been a loss that comes from that extreme as well. So I think, for myself at least, pausing and going am I being conscious in this choice, or have I tripped and fallen into it Has been a really key part of my personal exploration around these topics.
Ellecia : 13:04
Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's the intentionality. It's like we swing from one extreme to the other, trying to find the right way to be, and that's that's like you know, this, like hyper independence, is really lonely and has a lot of negatives to it. This hyper codependence is has no independence and has a lot of negatives to it.
Lee: 13:26
So it's like finding and really intentionally creating what it is that you want in in all the places And what would it be like if we, as a collective community whatever that looks like, could be your family unit, could be all of the people that you play rugby with I don't know your collective unit, the part of what would it be like if we not only celebrated our collective sense of self but also celebrated each of the parts in turn? I think of it as my body, right, if I look at my body as somebody who lives with complex disabilities and whatnot, like, i can celebrate that all of me is working and I can be really grateful that my hip is like is in socket right now. Right, i can have both of these celebrations. I could be really delighted by how beautiful my eyes are when I look in a in a mirror, but I can also be delighted at the entirety of me And I think for myself. I mean, i don't know for you. Like, what is that like for you with the notion of swinging back and forth from celebration of self and celebration of the individual or the collective? Like, what is that like for?
Ellecia : 14:38
you, gosh, that's a really good question. It does feel like a pendulum swing. It does feel like always trying to find the sweet spot, right, like sometimes. Sometimes I just want to be a part of, i just want to be held and loved and, like you know, i want to be able to fall apart with someone, and sometimes I just want to be a free bird and go and do my thing. I don't have to worry about anybody else, right? So it's like constantly trying to find that sweet spot of like are my needs being met, or my partner's needs being met, or my children being cared for? is my business running? I mean, you know, do I need a break? Do I need to be more involved? Yeah, yeah, oh that's so good.
Lee: 15:25
Yeah, and fine. Oh, go ahead. Yeah, right, and, and I think shows like this podcast, but also our own personal reflections and conversations and all that, i think, create the tools for being able to assess the questions you just brought up. Yeah, right, am I in balance with this? Am I in alignment with this? How am I with all of these pieces? Yeah, i think continuing to find tools and then not just find them but use them.
Ellecia : 15:53
Use them. I read the book and then I put it back on the show.
Lee: 16:01
You nailed it. That's exactly right, like that's exactly the picture that I had in my head. Yup, because Just because you read it doesn't mean you did it.
Ellecia : 16:13
Yeah, yeah, it's so hard. Sometimes It's like, ok, i know what I'm supposed to do, but when I'm like you know, when people are like in their fields activated, triggered, not in a calm state it's really hard to go and use those tools. That aren't the thing you've been doing for years, right, yeah?
Lee: 16:33
Yeah, and when you talk about doing the things you've done for years, i sometimes have this curiosity around Can we modify the tools we already have that we already know how to default to? Can we use them in this new environment we're exploring? Do we have to, you know, toss it out the window, as it were? which tossing it out the window? I always love the fact that some of that metaphor comes from literally throwing your bedpan full of toilet waste out the window. In like classical England. I'm like, yeah, do we have to throw all this shit out and have it land on the people down below on the streets? What would it be like to modify some of these things? Right, like, if we know how to take someone on a date, what would it be like to take ourselves out on a date? If we know how to be able to do some journaling about what's been happening at school or do self-reflection in those ways? what would it be like to do tandem self-reflection with you know everybody in your polycule and then everybody read each other's stuff, or do debriefing after you've done journaling about your relationship Polycule, right, like, if you have a tool, what would it be like to be more expansive around the thing you already have, instead of feeling like you have to start from nowhere every time you are trying to learn a new relationship, structure or skill.
Ellecia : 18:17
Yeah, yeah, oh, i love that. There's so much there that it is like there's so much that we kind of have to feel like we have to unlearn. But what if you are learning it, learning how to shift it and learning how to change it?
Lee: 18:43
Yeah, like it's. it's the next chapter, rather than having to start a whole new book.
Ellecia : 18:49
Mm-hmm, i love that Earlier you had talked about earlier. You said you were talking about like your body and like noticing that your eyes are beautiful, and and then the whole of your body And I just I loved that so much, talking about the self-love piece of relationship, right, and I think that's what you talk about quite a bit in your book. That's coming out Well self-love yes, but self-relationship. Mm-hmm.
Lee: 19:20
I've been really thinking just in life a lot, especially in the structures of polyamory and consensual nonmonogamy, about the notion that that love is not always enough. It's about how do we structure relationship, how do we thrive in this. And 12, 13 years ago I was on a. I was on an arts performance tour thing with Catherine Valenti and and SJ Tucker and some other authors and whatnot. I was writing at the time only about kinky stuff. They're like writing young adult fantasy novels, so it was an amusing combo. But I was on this tour and I had a conversation with this amazing person named Rose and they had gotten married to themselves And I'm like that's such an interesting concept, i need to really sit with that. And I started sitting with that and I'm like that's a great idea. And even got myself an engagement ring. Like what would it be like to propose to myself, like this whole model that Rose was talking about? And then I got myself a ring and I realized I had a shitty relationship with me, right, like if I proposed to me I might say no, how is that for an existential crisis? And it was this moment that I proposed and went wow, i have people in my life that I love and cherish and even want to be with the rest of my life. But do I have it set up with health and structures that can actually do this thing? because I am with me death through as part, like literally. I was there when I was born right, and I'm going to be there when I die, like that's, that's going to happen. But my relationship with me wasn't healthy And there's been times where it hasn't been And at that point I'd been poly for 15 plus years. I didn't have poly the word is poly at the very beginning, but I've been in these sorts of different structures for years And I had this similar realization while I was having this like a home moment with myself. Over the next couple of years, i realized that I was, when hitting into moments with people that I loved, that it wasn't a good fit. I was, there wasn't anything beyond the love to fall back on to in a, in the relationship, and so, in doing some of this self work around the idea of self relationship and self love, let me look at multi partnered love and multi partnered relationship. Are the relationships set up for the days that love is not enough, and am I set up internally for me for the days that that relationship needs to be there, because there's days I don't know about you, but there's days I don't like me. I'm like Godly, you're just. You're being a bit of a insert explicative here, right, what?
Ellecia : 22:33
are you doing One of?
Lee: 22:37
my favorite sentences to me is you know better than this.
Ellecia : 22:43
You've had that too. I've written that down several times.
Lee: 22:50
Especially for folks like you and me who do coaching work, that moment where the thing comes out of your mouth and you're like, Oh shoot, I guess I need to look at that one.
Ellecia : 23:01
Can I take my own advice here, right Dr.
Lee: 23:04
Heal Thyself Dr.
Ellecia : 23:05
Heal Thyself.
Lee: 23:06
Yeah, and so one of the things I wanted to look at with become your own beloved was this you know which is the name of the book is to really start looking at what's it like to become your own pen pal. What's it like to go on a date with you. What's it like to play those questions of like learn a whole bunch of stuff about you that you would ask with a partner you're on date for, with Like what would it be like to do that for me or for you? And then, through it, like one of the hardest chapters to write Oh my God, like I put this book on the shelf for like a year literally was forgiving your abusive partner when you do things to you or set up your life, or whether it's the big things or the little things, what's it like to learn the skills of forgiving you? But I'm like a lot of the other self love books. I was seeing out there that we're doing the pendulum you were talking about.
Ellecia : 24:14
Yeah.
Lee: 24:15
Let's say, like, well, you've got to work on your relationships, or work on you down to like the notion that you have to get a divorce to be able to do self love work. What's it like to do it while you're in relationship, whether it's relationship with community or with individuals. And this is where I cheat Those of you who are poly or consensually non monogamous. When you read it you're going to be like, oh my God, my friends, get to learn poly 101. In the book I break down for the do it while you're in relationship. I argue that, if you, that when you're, when you're with you and they're with them. There's three relationships relationship a relationship, be in relationship a b.
Ellecia : 24:59
Yeah.
Lee: 25:00
Right, yeah, if there's three people, so the two of you and your kid, there's relationship a, b c, a b c, a c, a, b c. That's called poly 101. I just I just stripped off the label and shoved it in a book that's mostly being marketed to mono folks, but it's just. I learned here No, yes, yes, that's exactly it. Everybody needs to be listening to your podcast, because the tools that are being discussed here are not just for CNN folks.
Ellecia : 25:38
Yes, Yes, My assistant is monogamous and she's like I learn so much from all of the content you're putting out from your podcast. She's like my husband and I our relationship is fucking amazing because of all of this non monogamous advice.
Lee: 25:53
Right And the stuff you're doing. but there's a mythology that says the stuff that's on this show should only be for folks who are poly or whatever terms they're using. Yeah, when it's not real. Yeah, these things can be translated Right, they can be put into a framework that's accessible to others, but sometimes the words we use make it intimidating. So for me, stripping all the poly words out of it and shoving it in that chapter with stuff that doesn't exclude people, because what I could have said and I think it's what I said in my original notes was polyamory shit applies to you to pretend you're one of the partners in your polycule smiley face. I think that's what the note was.
Ellecia : 26:43
It's always fun how the notes with the rough draft right For the rough draft. That's exactly what we come up with at the end.
Lee: 26:53
Right, and all of your like a bulk of your listeners would have been like Oh right, that's cool, i needed to hear that. But for everyone else it was seven or eight pages of writing and then an exercise for doing the work for yourself. That's short, that's easy, so you can actually practice it, because they don't have, you know, other people who haven't been doing this work might not understand that single sentence. So let's open it up, let's include a story or two, let's make it more accessible, and my hope for the poly folks is that maybe you'd be able to take that chapter and also be like Dear mom, try this. When you're done with those, you know 10 pages get back to me. You now have language to talk about my relationship with me and my two girlfriends. Yes, because now they have the words that translate outside of this community.
Ellecia : 27:54
Yeah, i love that so much, so much. You know it's funny. A lot of, a lot of the you know people. People come and say you know I'm having these problems in my relationships and experiencing jealousy and anxiety, and we're not. You know, we're not coming up with agreements and boundaries, and you know all the things And 90% of the time it all comes back to okay, how are you caring for yourself? How's your relationship with yourself? How much do you value yourself? Right, it always comes back to that.
Lee: 28:28
And it sounds easy. Are you taking care of you? Sounds easy, But it's kind of like you need to communicate with your partner. That sentence sounds so easy, But until you have skill sets and you get a chance to practice and build your muscles around these topics, the sentence sounds easy, almost flippant. But how, How do you do it? Give me examples, give me stories, give me applications so that we can practice as a triad, So we can practice as individuals, So we can practice as a relationship. Anarchy, web of doom, I don't know. However you identify Like. I see some of these maps and I'm like wow, like that's a, that's a lot, awesome. I've been in some of those maps And I'm like, wow, that's a lot, that was a lot of work, that's a lot of mapping. But what do these practices look like And do we get a chance to practice them? I'm part of the, the kink community. I've been part of these, those communities for a while And and there's a concept in the rope bondage community specifically of doing labs. And a lab is where it's not the class where you learned a tool right, And it's not a scene where you're either in the bedroom or a play space or whatever and getting your freak on. It's this thing in between, where everybody who's going to be involved in an interaction gets together and does lab like science class. It's okay, we learned the thing, let's make sure I actually remember how to do the thing. And you, as my partner who's being bound, i want you to communicate with me. This isn't a thing where I want you to be drifting off into law, law, sexy land. I want you to tell me, hey, that feels really good. Or tells me, oh, that's pinching this nerve here. Can we try moving that rope up? And I think if we could somehow lab our relationship skills and say, hey, we're not in a time of crisis. I'm not using this, like you know, equation for communication within relationship. I'm not using it in the middle of a crisis moment And it's not when I read it in a book. What's it like to practice it when there's low stakes? Yeah, with real feedback with real feedback. That isn't judgment. That's an opportunity to build our muscles.
Ellecia : 31:15
Yeah.
Lee: 31:16
And I think that would be so. I mean, i think there would be a richness that could come out of that. But we're told a we're actually often told we're actually not told skill sets, But it's often the you write in a book. Use it in crisis, yeah, and maybe even practice.
Ellecia : 31:37
I can try to remember that tool.
Lee: 31:40
Yeah, let's see if I remember that from six books ago that I listened to as an audio book while driving down the freeway. Yeah, that's going to work out well And it might. Actually there's some of you who are listening that that might work out great. But does it work for your partner? Will your other three partners actually agree in that moment when you're having friction between metamores and you're stuck as the V in the middle or the hub of the spokes, like, is that going to be the time that you'll remember, the time that it's going to allow space for everyone to thrive afterwards? Yeah, rather than feeling bruised as you struggle through it. I've actually sometimes practiced. If I can't with a relationship, i'll practice with friends where I'm like. So I read this thing that you shouldn't have heated conversations unless you check that someone's available for a heated conversation. So I have a curiosity right now, mitch, one of my best friends, mitch, are you available right now for a conversation? He's like I am available for a conversation. I'm like great, the conversation is going to be about how the party is going to go next weekend and I'm nervous that if I bring it up, there might be weirdness at the party. And he's like cool. Thank you for letting me know your concern in advance so we could keep that in mind. Like it was so cheesy, but it was a chance to practice this totally low stakes thing. Yeah, yeah, and it was about what food are we going to have at the party, because, as the vegetarian that attends at a meat eater party, like, but it was low stakes literally. Haha, anyway, didn't mean to do that, but, but but there's that moment where, just like because, literally, if he'd said no, i'm not taking care of any of your needs whatsoever, i'd be like great, i'm going to stop at Sprouts grocery store on the way to the party and get myself some vegetarian and vegan treats for me and two other people. Such a low stakes conversation. But I got to practice this concept of a conversation tool And so, i think, practicing these skills with ourselves. Yeah right having those challenging conversations with us. Am I available to sit down and do self journaling? Nope, i had a crappy day at the office. Let's not do that. Go you self. You just practiced a thing that's going to help you level up in your relationships, because you actually listen to you, and so I mean, i think I think there's this notion of practice that helps all of us.
Ellecia : 34:23
Yeah, Yeah. Everything feels awkward the first couple of times you do it Literally everything.
Lee: 34:33
I'm getting ready to teach a class called sexy safer sex for a group of 18 to 26 year olds at the local LGBTQ center, and oh, it's so good. And specifically making all kinds of safer sex practices sexy whether it's the conversation about when you last got tested to like what shape of condom fits you best, because, no, there's not just one shape Yeah, all that kind of stuff, and one of the things that I am going to be saying so often is it's going to be awkward practice on a cucumber three times before you ever get there. Yeah, try masturbating wearing a condom before you ever get together with a partner.
Ellecia : 35:13
Well, that's what I tell every Swinger, is it? That's what I tell every Swinger, every Swinger with a penis who's like I'm worried that it's not going to work when I get into a scene and I'm like you're right, it's not going to unless you practice.
Lee: 35:27
Yeah, seriously. Scotty Thompson, who's another sexuality educator, work for Planned Parenthood for years. He actually has people do who are in partnership that are going to be using condoms, if they're looking for something fun and spicy to do like group masturbation while wearing their condoms, especially if it's like MMM kind of relationships Or multiple people who have penises like what's it like for group mass and then trying on different condoms mid sex like, where it's like, oh, one brand isn't working for you very well, try on Trojan Ultra Thins. Trojan Ultra Thins smell weird to you. Try PS condoms. You know what I mean. Like try many things while you're in a group masturbation setting, so it's not just you alone in your bed And I'm like, okay, that just sounds like a hot scene. Can I just be there as your camera person?
Ellecia : 36:25
Combined with practice. Combined with practice.
Lee: 36:30
Yeah So fun.
Ellecia : 36:33
That's exactly it. Oh, i love it. I love it so much. I am often telling clients who want something to change in their relationship or their relationships. I would say a lot of people come to me and I say you know, what is it that you want? What are you looking for? And they'll go. Well, if only my partner would do this, or only if they would want to do that, or only if they would change in this way, or they would show up in this way And I'm like, okay, well, i can't do anything about that, i can't change them, so, so, so I'm always describing that every relationship is a system, and anytime you change one thing in a system, the rest of the system has to change. It can't stay the same Right. And so, whatever changes you're making with yourself, whatever practices you're putting into place for yourself, however you're loving yourself more, upholding your own boundaries more, valuing yourself more That's going to impact all of your relationships, because those systems have to change And I just I see, like your book here, everything we're talking about, i'm like that's exactly it. That's what people need. You don't need your partner to change. You need to change what you have control over, and then they just will.
Lee: 37:53
Though we don't know how they will. No, we do not have control over that. Yeah, so there, it can be a nervousness for some of us that if I take care of me and level up my self connection with me, how's my partner going to respond? Are they going to also go? oh shit, i need to work on me too. And now both of us have evolved. and do we still meet each other where we're at? Yeah, i actually, in the book, talk about new relationship energy, but I don't mention Polly. Change that. I mentioned it in this list. like I, have this giant list of things to keep in mind about your self identity, everything from like race to incarceration history to relationship structures. So I do mention Polly. But with NRE, one of the things I look at is if I've spent time leveling myself up or doing self care, whatever it is, and my partner has done the same, this is a chance for new relationship energy. all over again, yes, so I've been both of us spending, or the three of us spending, the last year, all doing some really serious, deep work. Is this a chance for the three of us to go to a Tantra retreat in Tulum, mexico, or to spend a single night based on our realities, with money or with kids or whatever. Is this a chance for us all to fall in love again? Is this a chance for me to go wow, who is this beautiful being before me? And how do the two of us want to fall in love with them once more? Because I honestly think NRE can happen at different chapters in our relationships, whether it's with ourself, whether it's dyads, triads or polycules, like. I honestly believe that NRE doesn't have to be a one time thing. It's anytime the word new happens.
Ellecia : 39:50
Yeah.
Lee: 39:52
Anytime something new happens And I think having the courage in our multi-partner dynamics or however we are in our world, having the courage to pause and say what is new Rather than being scared that if something new happens we're going to lose what was old, like the courage to look at what's new and give ourselves space to have that NRE appear multiple times in a relationship. I think there is a possibility for some powerful stuff there, but it is courageous. It is not something that everybody is up to, ready for or interested in. There's nothing wrong with it. If you're not interested in it, yeah Right. There's nothing wrong with choosing nope, not interested, cool. It's the same thing as if you know because I have friends of mine that every single time they go to a diner they always order the Greek omelet. Go you Like. There is nothing wrong with being delighted by consistency. And there's other opportunities too.
Ellecia : 41:03
Hmm, so good, right, so good. Oh, okay, i'm curious about, on this journey of your self-relationship, what kind of challenges came up Like? what gets in the way of that?
Lee: 41:37
I mean I mentioned the existential crisis of do I like me, yeah, yeah, which that rings out on my desk for almost a year Like it would just sit in there in a little box. I'd say some of them are the myth that I didn't have enough time for me, that I was telling that story, which I ended up realizing later that I developed this concept called microdates, where if no one else was around on the bus, i would just like or put in my earbuds and blast really loud music Because no one knew about me. Or sitting there next to someone else and having my own experience, because when you're with somebody else like, you're still having your own experience. But yeah, the myth that I didn't have enough time for me. It was about prioritization or what I consider me. I'd say I had a lot of story and I still do have a lot of story that I don't deserve My own stuff or my own, that I don't, that nobody else needs to value my own needs. Other people should come first And that's a lot of trauma story talking And a lot of us carry around trauma and it's embedded in our bodies And a lot of that has involved being really gentle with myself when those stories come up And having also allies. So friends or therapists or whoever that I have given active permission, Not just a friend who calls you out on your shit. It's a turning to your friend and saying I would like you to call me out on my shit. The difference between the two is called consent.
Ellecia : 43:43
Having a friend who's like.
Lee: 43:46
I'm just trying to help you. You need people to call you out on your shit. I'm like dear friend. I never asked for that. That's not consensual friend. I'd say those are three of my biggest ones. Yeah right, the story that I didn't have enough space for me, the idea that I don't deserve and do I like me. I think those are the big ones. Yeah, i think that is so, so, so relatable, so relatable for probably everyone, really Most people, for you Well, i don't know if you I talked to you Fair, but I don't know if you've had this happen. but those most, when we talk about like, do I like me To also pause and go. like, do I like everybody in my life every day?
Ellecia : 44:46
Right.
Lee: 44:48
Or is it like is it OK to have the days where it's just like you know, you do you Over there, I'm going to do me over here, Let's retry tomorrow.
Ellecia : 45:03
You know it's funny, my kids. they love to ask me who I love the most.
Lee: 45:09
They love to think oh, this is big competition.
Ellecia : 45:12
I'm like. I genuinely love you guys all equally. However, there are days that I like some of you more than others. You can compete on that one.
Lee: 45:28
Oh, oh, that is so real.
Ellecia : 45:31
Oh, my God, I look. Oh yeah, It changes hour by hour sometimes.
Lee: 45:39
Fair.
Ellecia : 45:40
Yeah, little lives.
Lee: 45:45
Well, and I think kids are great examples for some of these models. Yeah, and in the chapter where I'm like get to know yourselves better. I literally start out with the fact that when we're kids, if somebody says what's your favorite color this week, and you're just like what's your favorite color? And you say my favorite color is teal. And then two weeks later a different teacher says what's your favorite color And you go my favorite color is brown, those are two of my favorite colors. But like if it's two weeks apart and you have different answers when you're in kindergarten, no one gives you shit. Yeah, no one cares. But as an adult, when's the last time you got to reassess your favorite color without somebody asking you about it?
Ellecia : 46:28
I'll tell you that's a really funny example, because everyone assumes my favorite color is purple because I have purple hair and my house is purple and my boots are purple. It's not.
Lee: 46:39
Right. I think that's a great example. Would you be open to sharing this secret of your heart?
Ellecia : 46:45
It's actually aqua, it's in the teal aqua, it's aqua.
Lee: 46:48
OK, yeah.
Ellecia : 46:49
Yeah, i love that.
Lee: 46:50
Mine's the mint green teal spectrum as well. Yeah, so that is my default favorite color.
Ellecia : 46:55
I just don't want to burn it out, right.
Lee: 46:58
Well, that is a great example of the nuance of how your brain and heart experience the world, and so, for me, asking ourselves these questions as if we were back to being in kindergarten and there's nothing wrong with changing our minds might sound obvious for some folks, but for a lot of us I mean, there's a lot of things that I've held onto, and I've literally, after doing some of these questions, when I did some of them for myself, i'm like oh, i don't need to. Physically, i am a collector of many objects, especially sacred doodads, and I realize that some of the physical things I'm holding onto were of a story that weren't of me anymore. They were a story that was painted either by me or by someone else 20 plus years ago, and that I was simply still doing it because I hadn't asked myself in 20 years do you like this one thing? Is your favorite restaurant still this one place? Is your comfort object if you're feeling really depressed, still that one teddy bear? Or is that a story you told yourself when you were 15 and you haven't re-asked you?
Ellecia : 48:22
And for me when I.
Lee: 48:24
Right for some of us. Does it even change your identity? if right now you went actually my favorite color is purple, Like, would you have to reassess things? Or is it just like? no, no, now it's purple, but I'm going to keep all of the awkward stuff because that lights me up. It's just not. It just things shift. And I see that happen Again, if we're practicing skills that then apply other places. My boy and I, my partner and I we use the terms daddy and boy in a kink dynamic, but my partner and I we Like our default when we first got together was doing stuff three nights a week. Right, that's when we were like I would stay at their house, usually because they have dogs, i don't, and so dogs sitting costs money, it's easier to go there, but that's what we were doing. And then we fell into this habit where it became four to five nights a week, just because of what we were doing and the extra Like what was happening in our world and all this stuff. And then we paused and went Because we were talking about maybe me moving into the house And we were like, well, how would that work? And they paused and said I think I would need three nights a week, not together, even if we're in the same house. And I'm like, have we gotten to be too much together? And they looked at me and they were scared, like they had that concern face. I don't know if they were scared, scared, but they had that concern face on And they said, i think, maybe. And I'm like I think it's a little for me too. Can we go back to three a week and then four sometimes? And it was like this. Their shoulders just dropped And mine did too, but this slow shift over time in one direction. We hadn't stopped to ask is this still what we want? Because it had slowly shifted, just like it had slowly shifted from awkward or purple or whatever it might be, and as compared to pausing and being like, actually, do we need to go back to what it was Or do we need to go into the next chapter of what it gets to be And having the opportunity to practice that question with ourselves? I think for me, having been doing the work of building this book for multiple years, but especially in the past year, doing that work with myself over and over and over again, made it less scary when I asked them this question. It made it less scary for me Because I think if I had been the Actually, i know, if I had been the one asking that question five years ago, i would have been scared that they would have thought I was rejecting them Or that I was saying that I didn't love them as much, when really what they were having the courage to say was I think when we're together, i need to have this. And then I was taking that information and whatever the answer would have been, i'm trying to say I love you, and whatever the answer is, we'll make it work. We will find a way to thrive in whatever the structure is, even if it's imperfect, or even if this chapter ends up being really short. We try for two nights a week and then we, you know, two months later, are like this is dumb.
Ellecia : 52:02
Can we go back to You? get to change your mind.
Lee: 52:06
Yeah, well said, We get to change our mind. And how beautiful is that, Especially if we listen to everybody in the system of our relationships. we listen to our kids, we listen to our partners, we listen to our close friends, we listen to family of heart or of blood. Like, what would it be like if we practiced these things, listened to ourselves and each other and then built some stuff that actually was vaguely compatible with all of our lives, rather than settling on only one person's story?
Ellecia : 52:47
Yeah, yeah, magic. There's, like this, infinite possibilities, like it could be anything. Yeah, excuse me, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you would like to share? Uh?
Lee: 53:16
Let's see, i love quesadillas, me too. I'm thinking of like random factoids. I collect tarot decks. I'm at about 120 tarot and Oracle decks right now, not counting ones that I've sold or gotten rid of or whatever I don't know. I think my big thing on this topic specifically is that it's really great to build our tools around self-love. Our tools are on love with others, But what's it like to practice our tools around self-relationing Around self-relationship? And if you're somebody who's been listening to this stuff on this show for an extended period of time, what would it be like to go back and listen to an episode and pretend you were your own partner? What would it be like to think of yourself as one of the people in your own polycule And I think that's one of the things I've been really working on the last couple of years, including this book is treating me like a partner that deserves as much love and respect as my other partners in my world.
Ellecia : 54:35
Oh God, that's powerful. Your book has become your own beloved A Guide to Delighting and Self-Connection. I love the name. Before this conversation I wasn't sure what I would think, but now it has just moved to like the very top of my To Read list because I'm very excited about this.
Lee: 55:00
And as a note for the polynerds out there, my intro is by Dossi Easton, who was one of the two authors for Ethical Sled. So she's been in retirement for a couple of years, but when I approached her about doing this project it was really nice, because she got to talk about some of her explorations around self-love and self-relationship back in the 60s, during her time of free love and before bringing the word polyamory into popularity. And so to have the parent of the poly movement in many ways do this was such a great thing, such an honor, such an honor. So for folks who are polybook nerds, you get to have a slice of Dossi's life from a personal perspective rather than just the academic thoughts perspective.
Ellecia : 55:50
I love that so much. That was. the Ethical Sled was the very first book I read. that was like because I was married monogamously for 13 years and when I got divorced I was like, well, i don't want to do that again. I've checked all the boxes that come with marriage that I need to check. Don't want to do that again. I don't want to spend another 13 years with the one and then do it again in my 50s. So I was like, so I'm just going to be a big slut and I'll be honest about it, because that seems like the right thing to do. I didn't know anybody who was not a monogamous, not a single person. And so then I read the Ethical Sled and I was like I'm not the only one, there's more to this Right.
Lee: 56:30
And there's lots of amazing resources out nowadays that were not available back in the 90s and aughts when that project first came out. But I think A the new version is such a like the one that came out like what is it seven years ago is a really rich update from the original. If you're somebody who's been polyamorous, who's listening and read it back in the 90s or aughts like reread the third version, the purple cover book. But I think honoring some of the like these earlier concepts with whatever you're listening to nowadays is really important too. To get the get some of the base framework for these conversations is really useful.
Ellecia : 57:10
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, 100%. You're amazing and I could probably talk to you all day long. This is so fun.
Lee: 57:19
I have been super enjoying myself and I love the work that you're doing, like it's just juicy. It is so juicy. And, yeah, i'm looking forward to just getting to check out more of your stuff and dive in deeper, because I love it when nerds meet nerds.
Ellecia : 57:34
Yes.
Lee: 57:35
I refer to them sometimes as have that. Sometimes, when people like us end up meeting each other, you end up with brain babies. Right Conversation pieces come out of it. They would never have happened otherwise. And people later like where the hell did that thought come from? And I'm like it's because I hung out with them. So, yeah, i love this. I would love to be back on, sometimes six months to a year from now, like, make some, like I would love to come back.
Ellecia : 57:58
Absolutely. Where can people find you?
Lee: 58:02
My website, as well as most of my social media, is passionandsoulcom, including my Patreon patreoncom. Forward slash passion and soul, where every single week I put out different resources. I have different. I do Patreon only classes including. I have a recorded version of my intro to polyamory class that is up there for patrons, so feel free to check that out. And then, yeah, social media is all over the place. I'm findable. If you type in Lee Harrington on the internet, you find me an actress, or a woman who wrote Rex in the City, a complete dog walking guide, who is an amazing Kirtan performer. Please support her work. Her new album is great. She's not me.
Ellecia : 58:54
That's amazing.
Lee: 58:55
She's not me. I say this simply because she has gotten my email before And because occasionally, like, different places will write me but like, did you write a book on dog walking? And I'm like, no, no, that's, that's that, lee, anyway yeah, So passion and soul because, to me, i'm passionate. so are the two of the really important things in my life Right? Do we have passion for ourselves and for others in the world Right now? that is, that is how we. for me, that's how I find some of my North Star.
Ellecia : 59:28
Oh, it's beautiful. I have one more question for you. And this one air on the podcast. This goes on my Patreon patreoncom, Not monogamous, And it is just the tip. And it is the question is what is your favorite or best sex tip? Amazing You're, you're fantastic and brilliant. This is so good.
Lee: 59:58
I am so excited, like yeah And yeah, and there's such, there's such juiciness in all of this. And I'm 30 years into doing consensual non-monogamy in some way, and though, though, in middle school we referred to it as being in a love dodecahedron, because we were all on math team And we didn't have a good word for it. But I was into Will, will was into Amanda, but Amanda got pregnant by Mike, who was really into Anisha, but Anisha was kind of into Derek and Skyla, and Anisha was also kind of into me and I was into Thomas. Like it was a whole thing. Yeah, right, it was a thing. But like, 30 years in, you're still. I'm still learning shit. Yeah, still getting ideas, finding systems that I would have never conceived of, because all y'all dreaming up new ideas are awesome, right, and, and we all get to keep inspiring each other. So, like, let's just keep doing it, let's keep inspiring each other.
Ellecia : 1:01:05
I love that. That's perfect, wonderful. Thank you so so so much, yay. Hmm, if you are one of our Patreon supporters, if not, go to patreoncom. Slash not monogamous. But if you are, then you just heard the entire episode ad free with the bonus content just the tip, and got to hear Lee and I dish on some sexy tips and advice and ideas. And if you are one of my lovers which is the highest tier of our Patreon you also get a monthly group call with me And I've really, really been enjoying those. So go check out the Patreon, get just the tip, get the whole episode ad free And share, share some love, share some love with me, share some love with the podcast. And if you have anything you would like to hear us talk about, shoot me an email. Go to leasypaincom. All the details are there or in the show notes. Bye.