Polyamory Pitfalls: Handling Jealousy in Non-Monogamy with Ali Hendry, Ep. 70

Jealousy: the green-eyed monster we've all wrestled with at some point, and the surprise guest in many non-monogamous relationships. But what if jealousy isn't the adversary we've been conditioned to believe? This week, relationship coach Ali Henry joins me to unwrap the layers of this complex emotion, promising to take you on a journey from apprehension to enlightenment. We'll share laughs, personal stories, and Ali's expert insights, transforming jealousy from a stumbling block to a stepping stone in our intimate connections.

You'll discover:
- Why jealousy gets a "bad rap" in monogamy and how non-monogamy takes a more compassionate approach
- Tangible tips for mapping where jealousy originates from your past
- The key to transmuting jealousy into curiosity
- Hilarious and insightful stories of Ali's thruple dynamics

Ali's vulnerability and wisdom left me feeling seen, understood, and ready to approach jealousy with more self-love and patience.

Ali Hendry is a certified relationship coach specializing in non-monogamous relationships, with a particular focus on LGBTQIA+ women, non-binary individuals, and trans folks. Her extensive experience extends to working with singles, duos, and non-monogamous pods, offering valuable guidance in navigating the complexities of diverse relationship dynamics. As a contributor to Diva magazine, Ali's expertise and insights provide a credible perspective on embracing individual love styles and managing non-monogamous dynamics, making her a highly knowledgeable and esteemed voice in the field.

Want to connect with Ali?

• Alihendry.co.uk

• Instagram

• TEDx Survivor’s Guide to Jealousy https://youtu.be/BTtrGxZXWrI?si=voANt0hpmbHvJ8FL

To claim your free clarity chat with Ellecia visit  https://elleciapaine.podia.com/clarity-chat

Do you feel like you could use some help with your relationships? 
Get on a free call with Ellecia to see how she can help you  move through the challenges of jealousy, fear, anxiety, and insecurities in a way that strengthens your relationships, deepens your trust, and communication, and leaves you feeling confident. 
https://elleciapaine.podia.com/clarity-chat

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Credits
- Host/Producer: Ellecia Paine
- Editor/Producer: Danny Walters
- Hosted on Buzzsprout

Transcript:

Ellecia: 0:14

Hey, I'm Ellecia, your non-monogamous relationship coach. Welcome to the podcast where my friends and I chat about our relationships enthusiastic non-monogamy polyamory, swinging kink and our lives. You'll get a candid peek into what makes it worth it to live life outside the box. And in case you're still wondering nope, we're not monogamous hey friend, settle in with a cup of tea as we dive into a juicy chat about navigating jealousy in non-monogamy. I'm sure none of you are familiar with this one. I am thrilled to have relationship coach Ali Henry join me. With humor and wit, ali shares her journey into non-monogamy after spending years in monogamous relationships. Today you're going to hear why jealousy gets a bad rap in monogamy and how non-monogamy takes a more compassionate approach. Some tangible tips for mapping where jealousy originates from your past. The key to transmuting jealousy into curiosity. Some hilarious and insightful stories of Ali's throuple dynamics. Ali Henry is a certified relationship coach specializing in non-monogamous relationships, with a particular focus on LGBTQIA plus women, non-binary individuals and trans folks. Ali's also a contributor to Diva Magazine and her expertise and insights provide a lot of perspective on embracing individual love styles and managing non-monogamous dynamics. You know she and I had a lot in common. Her vulnerability and wisdom left me feeling really seen and understood and ready to approach jealousy with more self-love and patience. I hope this episode does the same for you. Enjoy, now it's working. We figured out the thing. So I wanted to say thank you for coming on the show, because I'm really excited to chat with you.

Ali: 2:18

Thank you for inviting me. The feeling is mutual.

Ellecia: 2:21

Of course, Of course. So the first thing tell me really quickly so that the listeners know. Can you just tell me like a quick brief who are you?

Ali: 2:31

My name is Ali Henry my pronouns are she, her, and I am a certified relationship coach. I work with LGBTQIA plus women, non-binary folk and trans folk. I work in the non-monogamy field and I work with singles, duos, non-monogamy pods. I also teach coaches how to coach, how to become relationship coaches, and I also write a column for Diva Magazine, which is an LGBTQ plus women's magazine. And yeah, just love talking about relationships, love it.

Ellecia: 3:07

Uh-huh, uh-huh Totally can relate to that. It's my favorite. Uh-huh, yeah, amazing. Thank you, thank you, awesome. I love that you're training coaches, because we need so many more of us. We need so many more people out here helping people do create relationships that they like and want to be in.

Ali: 3:31

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and, as you know, it's not regulated yet. So we have a lot of people who just bung up a website and say that they are coaches, and so we do have to have that accountability and, you know, where possible, choosing trainers who have things like International Coaching Federation certifications. So it's growing, as you say, and we do need to.

Ellecia: 3:55

Yeah, bring them in, bring in the people Uh-huh, uh-huh, exactly, exactly, yeah, I love that. Okay, so you work with non-monogamous folks and I don't want to assume that you're non-monogamous. So can you tell me what's your relationship to non-monogamy?

Ali: 4:15

Yeah, what's my love style? What's my flavour?

Ellecia: 4:19

Yeah.

Ali: 4:20

I am solo polyamorous. That is the title that fits me best, and what that means for me is that my first relationship is with self. I am really careful to make sure that my time, my energy and my attention is well placed. For anyone who enters my remit, my area, as it were, sounds rude, and whoever they are whether that's lovers, whether that's friends, colleagues, family members. So I do believe that we can have more than one romantic and sexual relationship at the same time. I have had that and I continue to have that in different ways.

Ellecia: 5:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. I think that solo polyamory Okay, so solo polyamory is one of those things that the term gets misused a lot as being like single, yeah, and dating. I'm solo polyamorous, I'm just, you know, dating, I'm like, that's just dating.

Ali: 5:30

It's a great excuse, yeah for for saying I'm Ashley single and I'm not looking for anything serious and and that's as you say this it's a misnomer. It's not. It's not the case. You can have different versions of non-monogamy. Within solo polyamory, the focus is making sure that you are resourced enough to deal with, deal with, manage, google, document the people in your life in the way that works for each of you and that doesn't mean the appropriate holders. Yeah, exactly, and, as you know, it doesn't mean treating them with the same amount of time, energy and attention. It means working out what is that shared dynamic between the two of you or three of you, or whatever Iteration you have created between you. So, yes, I think some people will think of it as well. Isn't that just a fancy way of saying you're single and dating and actually don't you think that the way that we date nowadays, that people are on the apps and they are not Meeting one person, seeing if it works out if it doesn't? Moving on to the next person, the way that people date nowadays is Is non monogamous. So we've got all these people calling themselves monogamous and they're dating non monogamously.

Ellecia: 6:49

That is exactly my thought and I remember, I remember trying to like go like defining monogamy and I'm like, okay, it's having sex with one person. I was like, well, like in your life, at a time, in a day, like what's the framework we're using here, absolutely it's all movable feasts. Yeah, mm-hmm.

Ali: 7:11

Yes, yeah, you've got dirty laugh as well. Yes, yes, I do.

Ellecia: 7:19

What is she thinking? I Love it on tondra.

Ali: 7:26

Yes, so you're right, it is solo. Polyamory does get that and press in terms of, well, aren't you just single or haven't you just got an issue with commitment? And in some instances that may be the case and in other instances, no. It actually means that I'm focusing on making sure that people who are in my life and and I have what we signed up for.

Ellecia: 7:52

Yeah, yeah oh. I love that. That's I that feels like you know, the the ideal, like the, like my. When my children grow up, when I'm a grown-up, that's what I want to do.

Ali: 8:08

You did the international sign for flying the nest, fleeing the nest. You kind of moved your hand up. There is it when they go.

Ellecia: 9:28

I'm curious, has has? I mean? I imagine the answers no. Have you always been solo polyamorous, or was that an evolution?

Ali: 9:40

No, I haven't. I have been many things to many people. I started off my relationship career as a straight woman in you know, the dating area, and I met a guy that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. I got married and we had a fantastic relationship, got married the same year as my two best friends was following. That relationship escalator Did it so well. And for those of you don't know what the relationship escalator is, its societies ascribed Stages that we are supposed to go through in order to have a fulfilling Relationship. So it's these kind of arbitrary markers that say well, you must have a proper relationship because you've met, you've fallen in love, you've had sex, you've moved in together, you've blended all your finances. That person is always your plus one whenever you go to an event. You wouldn't think of going on a holiday with anybody else, and I did all of that really well. And then I met a woman. I was 28 and I realized that actually my sexuality was not all as it seemed, and so started a relationship with her and, interestingly, my husband was a little older than me and experienced, and he had a conversation with me around Can we do this thing? Can we, can you continue to explore your sexuality? Because it started as an affair. And so when I told him that I was having this affair, we he posed the idea of Nonmonogamy. I had no idea what non monogamy was. I was 28. I'm 54, 53 or 54 one of the two picket, I don't mind and and so he had this conversation and because I was so in a Place of exploring and focusing on my sexuality, I couldn't do that within a heterosexual marriage. I needed to get out and see who I was, what I was. There was a whole load of identity stuff happening for me and and I want am I gay? Am I bisexual? Am I pansexual? What's going on here? Turns out I'm gay. Turns out I am a lesbian. I didn't. I. Was it still exploring that? And so that conversation was had and it was a no from me. And then I, yeah, started dating women and having long-term relationships with women, and then, about seven or eight years ago I was single. Just another ended. Another epic saga, which was lovely Serial monogamy, which is a form of non monogamy. Again, I would, I would sedressed. If you go from one relationship to another with, sometimes with an overlap, not with much of a gap sometimes you are still in love or still in lust, or there is still something hanging around With that previous person. Is that not a form of non monogamy? If you haven't, you know, if you're kind of holding on to two concepts at the same time, and so so yeah, then I, I, I started dating somebody and they were already in a relationship with someone else. They had discussed non monogamy and they they had they. They said that their relationship wasn't open, it was a jar, and I just pushed that bugger open. There we go. Hello, is it a swinging door? Turned out it was a swinging door and I dated one, one woman for a year and then I started dating her wife in the second year and so we were a thrupple for a while and then that ended, and then I went back to the original girlfriend, which was Interesting in terms of trying to navigate the way ahead, and we did awfully and wonderfully, catastrophe and also beautiful. I.

Ellecia: 13:28

Love this story so much, particularly because of the this kind of idea that we are supposed to know who we are in our 20s and then like, just stay on that path and keep following it and Like we spend our whole frickin lives figuring out who we are, you know, someday when I grow up 45 now, so eventually you know it'll probably happen Somewhere near the end maybe.

Ali: 13:54

Possibly so, and there's always gonna be something comes up that says, oh hello, what's this? What's going on here? And mine, you know I'm I. I menopause starts anytime between kind of well late mid to late 40s and then when you are actually in the bones of menopause it's round about the average age is 51 and I was 51 when I started my menopause. So then it was like oh hello, body. And from there I. Because I was doing a lot of coaching and very much close to my own mental health and well-being and my mindset work, I was able to approach menopause as Right, what can you do now? Body. And I know that's unusual, for for for some people when they're approaching their menopause. For me it was like right, let's, let's see what, what we're capable of. So see what we have to change and how we have to adapt. So there's always gonna be something that comes along and says yeah, you thought, you thought you knew. Mmm, I would like to inform you that there is a change ahead.

Ellecia: 14:59

Yeah, you know, that's funny. I was. I was in this, I don't know. I'd posted something online about new relationship, energy and re and someone someone came on to educate me about NRE and said, you know, it lasts six months to two years and don't make any changes, you know, don't make major decisions in that time. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's all, we know all that. But then I was like, but if it lasts two years, is that a temporary state or is that a change of who you are, how you relate? Like, if I'm not gonna make any decisions for two years because I'm in an altered state, will I ever be what I was two years ago?

Ali: 15:35

Yeah right, that's interesting, and also we are creating our own relationship designs. And so when you come into non monogamy, I felt the same amount of freedom that I felt when I came out, because when you come out, you don't have to sexuality. Everything about roles and rules is yours for the taking. What is sex? How do you do sex? All of those things? You make that shit up. And the same thing happened with non monogamy, because what is a long term relationship could be a weekend babes. You could have more intimacy in a week away with somebody who's your comet, which means they come into your life every so often and you are connected with them, but you're not on the phone to them the whole time. But if you're in town, there in town, or you book something together, it's like a comet. It zooms in and it zooms out. You could have a comet relationship and you see each other once every two years for a week, and that's as significant as the person that you've been living with for 10 years. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So we get to decide what time is. Time is hours for the playing with.

Ellecia: 16:49

Yeah, yeah, it's not even real.

Ali: 16:51

No. So in terms of new relationship, energy and, yes, absolutely, there is the research that is saying that, in terms of the hormones and behaviors and the things that they've been able to measure, it is between six months and two years. I mean, who says that six month relationship is not a relationship? I mean it is a relationship. It's whatever it is within those six, it happens in the way that it has to happen, because it's happened that way.

Ellecia: 17:21

Yeah, yeah, and when that ends, you don't like go back to your high school weight. Like you know, whatever you don't go back to being whatever you were before you are now. You have now been changed and you've evolved Exactly.

Ali: 17:36

You've evolved.

Ellecia: 17:37

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love that. Okay, I'm curious.

Ali: 17:44

Well, that's good that you do podcasts then, isn't it? I know right and that you're a coach, let me ask a question.

Ellecia: 17:52

Let's do it I have so many things that I want to ask. I'm so curious All the time I wonder is so okay? I have a menopause question because I wonder if it's like going through puberty again.

Ali: 18:12

Interesting. Well, it is a new season, it's definitely a change and everything you thought you knew is different, and it is defined by, primarily by hormones, because the biggest thing that happens is you, obviously, you get your estrogen drop and it, over the years, goes down by 90%. So there's definitely some similarities there. You are, you know different stuff from from when you're a teenager, not necessarily any better or any worse, but you know different stuff from being a teenager as, as opposed to 40s or 50s, it's yeah, I guess, is it. Is it like? Do you know? It's interesting because I had, I mean, like like many of us, I had a an interesting relationship with my body and by the time I got to my 40s, I was like, okay, this is who we are, great, fantastic, I accept you. So confident, so happy. Rip those clothes off, be naked, be on the beach, do whatever I need to do or want to do. And I was really in this place of acceptance and really loving it, because 20s and 30s had had been, you know, looking at body and examining body and all that kind of stuff. It's like 40s, yay, woo. And then what happens to your body changes? You hit menopause and, for a lot of us. We put on weight and I put on. I put on weight. In four months I was like, boom, there's stomach, hello. And I was like, oh, okay, hello, right, fine. And then the irony of the fact that as soon as you accept where you're at, the parameters change again. And this is where you need things like community and you need support and us non monogamous. We're good at that. We know that one of the main things we need to do when we come into this space unusual nothing is, as it seems, world of non monogamy. We have to use community and fortunately, we've got wonderful podcasts like yours. We've got great communities online, we've got friends, we've got meetups, etc. And it's the same with any kind of big change. Reach out to those people who are your elders. I'm not saying they're necessarily older than you, but they are. They've been doing it a little bit longer. They're your mentors. Reach out to those people Because, as well as them being able to help you, you are helping them. You are helping them. They're learning stuff about you as well. So it is a two way street.

Ellecia: 20:31

Yeah, yeah. I love that Because I often tell people you know, in relationships that are moving from monogamy to non monogamy, it's like going through puberty again, like you're learning how to date again. You're learning. You have all these new hormone things happening, new relationship energy and excitement and freedom, and woo, I'm going to go drive the car. You know whatever. It's like going through puberty. So so, and a lot of people relate to that like oh yeah, no wonder I'm all over the place.

Ali: 20:59

Yeah, yeah. And just like Ferris Bueller, you might crash the car. You know you might do that and it might, so you do need people around you to pick you up and support you.

Ellecia: 21:08

Yeah, yeah, I love that Community is so important, so important, what I'm okay, I'm curious, what would you say was the biggest struggle or challenge in then openly becoming non monogamous?

Ali: 21:40

What would I say is the biggest struggle or challenge? I would say and this is from partners rather than my experience. I would say that where I've seen people struggle the most, who I've been in a relationship with, has been around their family's acceptance of those changes and of who is this person, who are these people? And I have been very lucky. I suppose it is luck, isn't it? I have been very lucky with my family in that I just say this is what's happening and they go okay, it's Ali being Ali, what next? And because I like to educate people, I will give them information if they so wish, or re-educate them on words that they might use, because I've been a diversity and inclusion advisor and coach and trainer for many years. So I'm happy with being uncomfortable in spaces where people are learning. They're on their learning journey. So, for me, what's been the? I've just loved it all. I don't have enough. I've just loved it all. I've loved every new thing that I've learned. One of the most interesting things was jealousy. So, as you know, I did a TED talk recently called Survivors Guide to Jealousy, and that was when you're going into non-monogamy and when I talk to people who are monogamous, one of the things that they say quite often is I couldn't do that, I couldn't do that, I'm too jealous. No, I just couldn't. As if, when you become non-monogamous, there's this kit that you get given, which is use this cream and you will never be jealous again. And also as if monogamy doesn't have any jealousy in it. I mean, that's where I learnt my tricks, that's where I learnt it all through my monogamous relationships. And what happened, which is really curious, is when I so if you said to me what's the most difficult thing about monogamy, I would say jealousy. Yes, what I learnt in non-monogamy is that I entered a community where jealousy wasn't seen as shameful. Because, in non-monogamy, a lot of people I talk to see it as a messenger, as something that we need to find out about, as a shared area that we will address together, as opposed to you're the one who's always jealous and I'm the one who always gets it. So you need to sort yourself out and I just need to ignore you and just keep telling you that I'm not cheating on you, whereas in non-monogamy it's been like right, okay, this jealousy thing. How can we couple duo quad, you know thrupple, whatever is happening, whatever the dynamic, how can we work on this situation together? So, to enter a community where there wasn't Obviously there is still some shame around it wasn't as much shame gave me the freedom to find ways of moving through it.

Ellecia: 24:54

Yeah, yes, yes, yes. I love that so much and that's super relatable. I was listening to your Ted talk and I was like, yep, that checks out. I was always. I mean, when I decided I was married for 13 years, monogamous, got divorced, I was like, well, I don't want to do that again. So what does that look like? And I was like, well, I'm a very jealous and a very possessive person, but I don't know that those things serve me in any way. They haven't kept me safe, they don't make me happy, so what am I going to do about that? And then I moved into my life of non-monogamy and was like, oh God, they didn't go away. No, I have to enjoy, I bought it with them.

Ali: 25:32

I bought it with me. They came along too.

Ellecia: 25:34

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then like, had to, like it was like oh, you can do things about this, you can explore these feelings and find ways to mitigate them and heal hurts that you didn't even know existed. And then it just gets smaller and smaller. And people ask me all the time because I teach a lot on jealousy as well is like does it go away? I'm like it doesn't go away, it just gets quieter. And when it pops up, it's like oh, I see what that. I recognize this, I see what that is, I know I have all the tools to deal with this, so it just doesn't seem like a big wound and more like ah crap, I got a paper cut on my finger. Yeah, yeah.

Ali: 26:17

Absolutely. I love the work that you do. I listened to one of your podcasts that was taken out of one of your classes and I loved it. I loved the style of it. So, people, if you are, do scroll through and see and have a look at that podcast. It's brilliant. Obviously, listen to Mthed talk as well, and I love what you say. I'm a jealous person because that's how we do, that's what we're, that's the narrative. I'm a jealous person oh, they're a really jealous person and actually what you've done is you've attached an identity to you which isn't part of your identity. You feel jealousy, you experience jealousy. So when you start to put it over there rather than it's part of who I am, it's my makeup, and you go, actually you're over there. I can look at you and choose to pick you up in a different way or turn you around and turn you over in a different way. Then you start to be able to get some perspective on it, and when you get perspective, that's when the curiosity comes in. You can look at where's it coming from. Why does it always come up? At this point? You know, one of the things that comes up a lot around nonmonogamy, and I know you'd be doing this with your clients as well is when your partner starts dating someone new. What the heck do you do on their first few dates? Because you're at home twiddling your thumbs thinking about all the excitement they're having, getting FOMO, and you're getting that rising feeling. Well, for me, it's a rising feeling in my chest that I've called jealousy and that then starts to catastrophize. So looking at how you can preempt that, the things you can do to support yourself because there are loads of things you can do realizing that it's just a sensation rising and you've decided to call it jealousy, when actually it's a sensation in your body and your brain is doing a number on you, saying oh, and it's jealousy, oh dear, you're terrible, aren't you? Instead of saying huh, okay, it's just feeling a little bit hotter in my chest right now. That's the fact. That's all I've got. I've just got the fact of what's happening with my body. My brain is deciding to interpret it in a different way.

Ellecia: 28:21

Yeah yeah, I love that. Finding the sensations and naming them as sensations rather than attaching all of the stories to them is so, so helpful. I remember when I realized that the sensations that came with jealousy were very, very similar to the sensations that came when I was turned on and I was like, huh, look at that. Yes, what stories can I attach to this? Yeah, yeah.

Ali: 28:53

And there's a real thing called zealophilia. I mean, zealophilia is real, where you are turned on and it's not cock-holding. It's different from that. It is jealousy. It is that fear of losing something or someone to someone else. That's what jealousy is. It's a fear of losing them to the other person. So there's always three entities involved in jealousy as opposed to envy, where you want something someone else has. So there only needs to be two entities involved in that. In that instance, that feeling of oh my gosh, lost going is can be hot, absolutely I need to. Oh, it revs you up. There is hormonal changes around that, so no wonder, and yeah, you can play around with that when you realize that yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.

Ellecia: 29:41

It was like you'll play when I heard the term arousal applied to nervous system states being activated, right, and that being a state of arousal, and I was like, oh, that's not just a sex thing, huh, yeah. Well, now it's all making sense my nervous system is aroused.

Ali: 30:06

Arousal is such a wonderful word, arousal.

Ellecia: 30:11

Yeah, rolls off the tongue. Well, it does. It does Amazing what. What would you say If you were to give someone advice? What would you say would be the first thing anybody struggling with jealousy should do?

Ali: 30:35

Yes, if you are struggling with jealousy. So one of the things that came up for me was looking at where in the past there had been clues to my jealousy. So it was getting forensic, and in therapy and in coaching as well. So therapy helps us look at the past with a view to healing. It helps us to come to terms with lots of things that happened in the past, whereas coaching is looking at the present and the future, getting clarity in what's happening now and thinking about where we're going to get to in the future and how we're going to get there. So there was a little bit of therapy in terms of oh well, where have you come from? And for me, I found that there were situations where there were three people in. I was one of three children or I still am one of three children. Through the nature of that, there were some sibling jealousies that started off not getting as much attention from parents or feeling invisible as the middle child and not having an identity. I'm not the eldest, I'm not the youngest and you know, I'm just the middle child. So that invisibility stuff fed into my jealousy history. And then also looking at things like attachment theory. So how did I, what was my relationship with each of my parents? Were we securely attached? Was their anxious attachment? Was there avoidant attachment going on, and how did that show up in my view of relationships? So I would say, start thinking about where map it, map it back and see where those things are in your history, around your jealousy journey.

Ellecia: 32:27

Yes, yes, I love that. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I remember having an experience of I have a triad as one of my sets of relationships and I remember walking into the bedroom and my two partners are there and I had this everybody hates me, nobody invited me, nobody wants to play with me feeling and it was identical to being 12 years old and my best friends having to sleep over and not inviting me. I was like, okay, I'm not 12 anymore and I'm not uninvited. Okay, I see what's going on here. It was like the same feeling. It was wild, and to make that connection and then dig into that was powerful.

Ali: 33:13

Yeah, yeah it's. You just reminded me of a situation that happened when I was in the throuple and the three of us were having sex and so there was the established couple, if you like. They'd been married, they'd been together for a while and I'd been around for about a I don't know maybe two or three months, dating both of them at that point. So with one person we'd been together for a year. With the other person we'd slept together two or three times as a throuple. So they obviously had a lot of history and they were. There was a lot of dynamics. I mean, without you having to go into, there's okay when there's three people, right, you're always gonna. I don't know if this is fair to say, but I'm going to say anyway. Usually in my experience you're always going to fancy one person slightly more than the other. They were, I've said it Look at you, so brave. So this was, this was apparent, and because of the overcompensating of one of my partners, they spent more time kissing the other, their partner, just to kind of go look, it's fine, I really do fancy you. Which there was a different dynamic, because it was clear in the sex that that this person and I fancied each other more. I mean, let's not judge, but let's. So I got a little bit upset with all this kissing and, like you said, I stood up and I was, I was wearing certain things and I looked absolutely ridiculous and I stormed out in my best teenage way that I could Flounced, one might say. I flounced out and went downstairs. It was I don't know 12 o'clock at night, it was a hot summer's evening, and and they kind of followed down sheepishly going what didn't get the memo, what's going on? And I was inconsolable for two or three minutes and then I was like we need to change this. We need to change our state. Come on, let's go outside. So I took us outside, I put on the sprayer and we doused ourselves completely nude, or almost nude, in this little suburban garden in the middle of London, with the sprayer going. And it was exactly what the three of us needed. We needed to recalibrate. What were we doing? We were impacting our central nervous system. My central nervous system had gone through the roof. They were like I have no idea in all reference point for what the heck is going on. What are we doing? We're just doing what we've already done and we've always done, and we needed that physical, that physiological shock of this water landing on us to change it. And after that things went well, let's say.

Ellecia: 35:54

What a brilliant, brilliant way to deal with that. Oh my gosh, I love this story so much. I there have been entirely too many times when I've just gone to the bathroom and cried when, like some, some sort of shift like that.

Ali: 36:08

Yeah, get them under, the go to the bathroom but with them stick the shower. Stick your heads under the shower.

Ellecia: 36:16

You know I also. I loved it what you said about like you know one person you know will fancy another more, and I think I think that's so human. Anytime you get three people together, like if you watch three kids play, one kid always feels left out. It shifts which kid, it changes, but one of them always feels left out. And I see the same thing in three person relationships because humans just pair off. We just do that Like I know who I'm supposed to be looking at, I know who I'm supposed to be touching, I know who I'm supposed to listen to, and when you add more people your brain just goes what, who do I? What do I do here?

Ali: 36:55

Yeah, yeah, and that's absolutely okay, and it can be something that's unspoken or spoken and and, as we know, there are so many different ways to relationship. So it may be that, yes, there is more of a sexual spark, but it may be that there is more of a secure attachment. It may be that there is more of a belovedness. It may be that there is more of a shared books and interests and education. So there are so many ways to relationship. You don't need to be comparing, and I think that's what's so difficult about nowadays, because we live in a comparison heavy environment and you know, when you're with one person, it's the two of you. Someone joins, your brain starts comparing and oh, the other person doesn't do that, oh, they do that differently. I must tell the other person, and so our brains do that and that's great and fine. However, we are also human. We are human and individual and we deserve to have our own autonomy.

Ellecia: 37:58

Yes, yes, yes, yes, I, yeah, absolutely. I always try to my partners and I have agreements that like, compare, like we know we compare, it happens. So we always try to make sure that we don't use absolute language the best, the biggest, the worst, you know, anything that's absolute and the most of anything. We don't do that like we can compare, that's fine, but like, not in an in any sort of absolute way because that's brilliant. At some point someone's going to come along that's even worse, or even better, or even does that thing with their tongue in the best way. That's ever happened. Yeah, so so we'd leave that open.

Ali: 38:39

Yeah, that's great, and you focus on the things that you do know, which is I choose you. I choose you every day. I still choose you, and you focus on that instead of the. Well, that's different. Well, that doesn't quite work in the way that it works with the other personal people.

Ellecia: 38:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you would want to share with the listeners?

Ali: 39:11

I think there may be people who come to your podcast who are new to nonmonogamy and at the moment, I'm in my dating season. I love that I have a dating season, so call me. Yeah, so call me. So that's what I want to say. Call me. No, it isn't. It is because I'm in my dating season. I'm coming across people who are experienced with nonmonogamy, not experienced, etc. Curious about it, and one of the things that I've been working on around people who are new to nonmonogamy is and this is with my clients as well is thinking about what is drawing you to nonmonogamy in the first instance. Answer these two questions what am I wanting to move towards as I enter nonmonogamy and what am I moving away from as I enter nonmonogamy? Because what I find, sometimes because of the press and because of the things that are said about nonmonogamy some people are entering nonmonogamy because they don't want to do the U-Haul lesbian anymore. They don't want to do this. We move in as soon as we start going out together, forever, never be lonely again, spliced, you know, wearing matching fleeces, and so they want something else and they think it's nonmonogamy, and it absolutely may well be. In that instance, if you're asked the question what am I moving away from? Oh yeah, moving away from boredom, right. Is that a good reason to move into nonmonogamy? Because, yes, you're not going to be bored and you're going to work the hardest you have ever worked on your communication skills and many other skills as well. So many skills so many skills, yeah, so that's I guess. I think that's where I would leave people. Think about what you're moving towards and what you're moving away from as you explore getting into nonmonogamy.

Ellecia: 41:06

I love that. I think most people focus on one or the other of those. Yeah, and, like you know, I'm moving away from this with no idea of what's ahead of me, or I'm moving towards this thing with no idea of what I'm leaving behind. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ali: 41:23

And if it sits well with you and you're thinking, no, I still think that's a good reason to just explore this thing, great. But if, by asking yourself that question, you're going, oh, I'm actually running away from something, I'm actually hiding from something, I'm actually seeking something that probably never exists and I've been sold this sort of situation, that isn't the reality for me. I don't think so. If there's any discomfort, that's your messenger. Have a look at it. It doesn't mean you can't go into nonmonogamy. It just says great, you've got more information now as you approach these changes.

Ellecia: 41:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, gather data.

Ali: 42:00

Gather all the data.

Ellecia: 42:02

All the facts Definitely To combat the jealousy.

Ali: 42:06

Yeah, yeah, that's a that is a great one for jealousy, it really is. What are the facts of the situation? Yeah, because your brain is telling you lots of things that aren't true. Your brain is deciding to give you a little kind of whirlwind right now and actually, if you write down what the facts are, you haven't got much to go on. Yeah.

Ellecia: 42:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I find that my brain is super creative when I'm not trying to write something down. When I want it to be creative, it's not. Yeah, yeah.

Ali: 42:41

Yeah, that's true. So when you search around, when you're in a lower state, lower mental health state, you are more creative. And so if you are already in that state of oh, my goodness, I'm feeling these feelings, I think it's, I think jealousy is coming up for me, you're in your creative phase, brilliant, awesome, thanks, thanks, body, brain, soul.

Ellecia: 43:06

That is. I was not aware of that and that is fascinating, and also I definitely find that to be true. For me, that's when I do all my creative things, get me upset about a relationship, and I can paint, and I can write, and I can journal and I can dance. Yeah, yeah Now you know why?

Ali: 43:25

Listen to all the music.

Ellecia: 43:27

Absolutely, yeah, yeah, amazing. How can people find you?

Ali: 43:34

You can. I'm most active at the moment on Instagram, which is Ali Hendry coaching. You can find loads of information about me on my website, which is alihenrycouk Amazing, Thank you.

Ellecia: 43:48

Thank you. I have one more question, and this one does not go on the main podcast but goes to our Patreon supporters at patreoncom. Slash, not monogamous, and it's called Just the Tip and it's what is your best or favorite sex tip? Yeah.

Ali: 44:08

Yeah, that's amazing, thank you. Thank you so much.

Ellecia: 44:19

This has been so much fun. I am absolutely enamored with talking to you. You're wonderful and I so appreciate you coming on the show.

Ali: 44:28

I have loved it. It's been so much fun. Thank you for inviting me.

Ellecia: 44:32

Absolutely Thank you. And that was Ali Hendry with her great Just the Tip segment. If you're curious about that and you want more, there's a whole world of exclusive content just waiting for you. By becoming a Patreon supporter, you can access all the behind the scenes insights and bonus content, where we reserve these segments for our special community. So don't miss out on these extra nuggets of wisdom and deeper dives into the topics that we all like to hear. Visit www.patreon.com/notmonogamous to join us Bye.