Unlocking Desire: Exploring the Transformative Power of Sexual Fantasies

Astonishing revelations await as we journey into the realm of desires and sexual fantasies with the luminary, Artemisia Divine. Imagine peeling back the layers of desire, treading into territories unexplored, and gaining a profound understanding of your own erotic wiring. This is not just about sex or fantasy; it's about self-discovery, connection, and pleasure in its purest form.

Dive into the world of stories; the narratives that fuel our fantasies, the scenarios that make our hearts race, and the characters that come alive in our minds. Let's dissect the power dynamic of predator and prey, a trope common in casual sex encounters, and the subconscious desires that control us more than we realise. The influence of these narratives extends beyond the bedroom to shape our relationships, experiences, and perceptions.

Finally, let's turn up the heat with Artemisia as she delves into the world of sex tips. This isn't just a list of 'do's and 'don'ts'; it's a guide to understanding your and your partner's erotic wiring. From communication to exploration, Artemisia shares insightful tips to help you unlock your desires and enhance your sexual experiences. Get ready to redefine pleasure as we navigate the captivating world of desire.

Do you feel like you could use some help with your relationships? 
Get on a free call with Ellecia to see how she can help you  move through the challenges of jealousy, fear, anxiety, and insecurities in a way that strengthens your relationships, deepens your trust, and communication, and leaves you feeling confident. 
https://elleciapaine.podia.com/clarity-chat

Support the show

📰 Subscribe to Not A Monogamous Newsletter to stay up to date with new episodes and offerings from Ellecia. If you would like the behind the scenes exclusive content, become a Patron today! www.patreon.com/notmonogamous

Get free shipping on my favorite toys!!

👀 Find Us Online
- Website
- Facebook
- Instagram

Credits
- Host/Producer: Ellecia Paine
- Editor/Producer: Danny Walters
- Hosted on Buzzsprout

Transcript:

Ellecia: 0:21

Hey, I'm Ellecia, your non-monogamous relationship coach. Welcome to the podcast where my friends and I chat about our relationships enthusiastic, non-monogamy polyamory, swinging kink and our lives. You'll get a candid peek into what makes it worth it to live life outside the box. And in case you're still wondering, nope, we're not monogamous. Today we're diving into a topic that's often shrouded in mystery and misunderstanding. In a world where sexual fantasies are too often met with stigma and misconceptions, our guest today dares to challenge the norms and shed light on the fascinating world of desire. Artemisia Divine, a true luminary in the realm of sexual exploration, offers a perspective that will unravel your preconceptions and leave you hungry for knowledge. Artemisia has a revelation that will have you questioning everything you thought you knew about your own desires. Are you ready to unlock the secret hidden within your deepest fantasies? In this episode, I get to chat with Artemisia and embark on a journey of self-discovery and sexual awakening. Her pioneering approach creates a safe haven for people to explore their most profound desires, free from judgment, free from shame, and through her own path of self-discovery, she's harnessed this transformative power of sexual fantasies to unlock hidden desires and achieve profound states of pleasure and consciousness. Artemisia sees sexual fantasies as more than just fleeting thoughts. She views them as intricate narratives with underlying structures and functions, and by understanding the language of these desires and fostering trust and communication and understanding all the things we really want, she helps people embrace their unique fantasies with open arms. This is a juicy, juicy, juicy episode and by the end you'll gain a deeper appreciation for the vast diversity of sexual fantasies and how they can contribute to self-discovery and increased intimacy in your life. So if you're curious about your own deepest desires, this episode is a must listen. And before we dive into this enlightening conversation, I want to share something else with you. This podcast thrives with the support of our incredible Patreon community. So if you're finding value in these episodes and you want to get even closer to the nope, we're not monogamous experience, consider becoming a Patreon supporter. By joining our Patreon family, you not only get access to exclusive perks and behind the scenes content, but you also help us continue to bring you these meaningful conversations. So go to patreoncom, slash not monogamous and become a vital part of our wonderful Patreon family. Enjoy the episode. Okie dokie, welcome, hello, hi Hi. So excited to have you here and so excited to chat with you, and I would love to start, would you mind telling the listeners a little bit about you?

Artemisia: 3:35

The first thing people want to know is how on earth to pronounce my name. So let's start there. My name is Artemisia Devine and I am the expert that teaches the sex boats how to understand and engage sexual fantasies. And I draw on my background of 30 plus years of sex geekery including, you know, somatic sexology, my anthropology degree, my insights as a writer who geeks out on how stories work, all sorts of things. But the most influential part of my development around my ideas and understandings about sexual fantasies comes from my 12 plus years of sex work and work as a professional dominatrix, because, you know, there's nothing quite like actually being paid to live out the sexual fantasies of 1000 people on an embodied level, to give you some insights on how sexual fantasies work, definitely so. In the past, you know, in the past we've kind of turned to therapists to be the experts on sexual fantasies, which of course, therapists have lots of really valuable tools, but they're limited through the sexual fantasy lens, I mean with the therapy lens in which to understand what an earth sexual fantasies are and that tends to, you know, try and put slot things into what happened in your childhood and wounds you might need and things that are broken that might need to overcome, or they just have this idea of it's healthy, but we don't really know why. And there's not. We've turned to these, but now I flipped this whole thing on its head with my new theory, and now the therapists are coming to learn from me how sexual fantasies work, and the other other experts as well, like sex educators and sexologists and sex workers and and curious sex explorers as well. So that's a little bit of context about where I'm coming from. I'm all about the sexual fantasies.

Ellecia: 5:51

So am I? Me too, me too, but probably not to the same extent you are with, with your experience here. Okay, so the question that I ask everyone who comes on nope, we're not monogamous, because what is your relationship to monogamy, or what is your relationship structure? Or how do you, how do you move through that in your life?

Artemisia: 6:19

Well, it's a complex question, isn't it? Yeah, I honestly don't know the answer. If someone said to me are you monogamous or are you non monogamous? I actually don't know the answer to the question about at the moment because, because I don't want any relationships at all at the moment, I'm perimenopausal and I just live alone and never let any humans in my space. Every head right now.

Ellecia: 6:46

The answer is no, but.

Artemisia: 6:49

I've spent my life, I think I don't think I've actually ever fully been in a monogamous relationship, even though technically we didn't have any other. We didn't talk about it initially, when I was younger. I'm 48 now when we've. But my whole crew, my whole social network is full of people who are non monogamous in some way or another, to the point where it's normalized. And you know, in my friend's circle I've got Janet Hardy, who who wrote, you know, co-wrote the ethical slas, and incredible people like Anne Hunter and Pete Hayden, who is here in Australia with the public the only public face of polyamory. For many years before it was cool. They were part of the ground breakers who made it okay to even explore this topic and and did a whole lot of media work and they're incredible people in my life. And yet my personal experience has been that well, I haven't been very successful in non monogamy, in that I haven't found anybody who could actually that I actually felt safe in. I haven't actually fallen in love with and wanted to form a relationship with anyone who could actually do this properly Right. So I've been in situations where it has not worked and that's made me swing the pendulum wildly in reaction to that going? I'm a nonogamous. I'm not having this crap anymore. To you know, I don't think I could do monogamy. I don't know. No, actually, no, I don't think I can. So I don't know the answer to that question. I'm still in this constantly unfolding space, you know this kaleidoscope of discovery always, and but one thing that's that sex work taught me is that people would assume that because when you're a sex worker, that that just means automatically that you're your non monogamous. If you're in a relationship while your job is to be sex work, isn't that non monogamous. And actually lots of us don't agree with that, because sex work is work, not a personal relationship. Right? The sex that we're having is not to fulfill our needs emotionally or physically, it's for somebody else's benefit, and so that's work. That does not feel like lots and lots of sex workers feel as though they identify as monogamous, even though they're workers.

Ellecia: 9:37

That is amazing and just kind of blew my mind a little bit. Like, as I hear it, I'm like, yeah, obviously. And also, when I've come to that conclusion myself, I don't think so that's awesome, cool, I like that new stuff to chew on. Amazing, amazing. I love that it's so I don't know. I feel like people think they have to have it figured out and everything is very binary and very black and white. Like you're monogamous, just be monogamous, or you're non monogamous, and like this, like every evolving exploration is very human and like really, what most of us do, especially considering relationships, involve other people and all their shit. Right, well, you can have everything figured out, but then you then half of it relies on other people, right?

Artemisia: 10:34

Other people are never what you want in your fantasy version of another person.

Ellecia: 10:41

Exactly Right. So there's our fantasy and then there's reality.

Artemisia: 10:52

And I think lots of times they ended up in relationships with people who had a fantasy version of non monogamy and I knew that going in because I'm not green behind the ears, but it is. You can't entirely choose who you fall in love with and I kept hoping that they would grow in Not so much, not so much, yeah.

Ellecia: 11:16

Sadly, yeah, mmm. So so you are working with fantasies and I'm curious could you explain for us what? What actually is a fantasy Like? What are sexual fantasies? How do you define that?

Artemisia: 11:42

That's an excellent question, because lots of people get stumble when you say to them do you have sexual fantasies? They say no, I don't have sexual fantasies. What are you talking about? All right, and actually if you poke a little bit further, they discover that they do indeed have sexual fantasies. It's kind of a little bit like people who think they don't have dreams. They do in fact have dreams, they're just not aware of it. So there are people who there's let's just have a quick look at this there's three main doorways into into arousal, three places to get yourself into a sexually aroused state. One doorway in is through senseate focus. So focusing on your senses, your body, your smells, your taste, your sight, you know body types that you find attractive, the sensations you're feeling, the touch, the quality of the touch, and that can for some people that is the primary doorway in, so they don't realize that they also have fantasies. The other doorway in is through partner engagement. So your attention, when the spark of actual turn on hits, is actually coming from the quality of connection that you're having with your partner in that moment. Right the interaction. It can be romantic and really connected, or it can also be cheeky and playful, or it could be naughty and dangerous, but it is. It is the, the energy or the electricity between you. That is the, the excitement, source of the excitement, and the touch comes as an expression of it. Secondary and sexual fantasy is the third doorway in. So this is anything that you think about that draws, that is the thing that sparks your, your arousal. So you might be absolutely loving the electricity of the partner, engagement and during the physical touch, but the spark itself comes from the, the thoughts that you're having, the thoughts that you have in your mind, or even the even. And sometimes, sometimes you can be really conscious of that story that is going and you can be playing it in the background of the moment on purpose, but sometimes you can be unaware of it. You can just be as a whole meaning making story going in the background in your mind. And when your partner is in sync with representing that story for you in their body language and their attitude and the way that they're approaching you, you become excited. But when they're not, they're expressing something else. You lose your excitement. So this is, this is the kind of arousal that comes from sexual fantasy. So everybody's capable of all three styles of arousal, but people tend to default to one or the other, and, but you can learn to do access all three Definitely. And this is one of the things that people do and I think non monogamous people might be more interested in this in particular is most people will try and turn each other on by going to their own default arousal style. Right, they'll? They, oh, I really love sense that focus. So I'll just touch you beautifully and you'll get sex and you'll get turned on, and someone else is like no, I'm really turned on my sexual fantasy, I want a dirty talk, so I'll turn you on by dirty talk, assuming that that what feels good to us will also feel good to them will also be the spark that gets them going. And starting to understand what your dominant pathway is is the very first step. But to circle fully around back to your, your original question is what is this sexual fantasy? Anything that you think about? So that can be a full blown story of you. Know, maybe you're a hero, rescuing the, the mandams, all from the baddies, and that's one of my fantasies beating them all up with credible martial arts skills and they swoon at how wonderful I am and and, and, you know, end up throwing each other against the wall because it was so hot and exciting to be able to vent this violent streak inside of me and still keep my identity as a good girl because I'm the hero Right. I think it'd be a full blown story like that. Or you can be thinking about, you could just have flashes of things come into your mind like body parts and sex acts. Or you could be thinking about how your date's going to play out this weekend and getting sexually excited, imagining how it could be, how the ideal date could be with a real person that's also a sexual fantasy if it gets you excited or even remembering a past real life peak experience through the lens of your own story making, of course, because memories are, all you know, adjusted a little.

Ellecia: 16:50

A little brighter.

Artemisia: 16:55

If you draw and if you're thinking about that, even if you're really with that person, but you're remembering when they, when they held you in this other way, or they had that particular cheeky look, and then that's drawing on a sexual fantasy in order to get excited, that's so good.

Ellecia: 17:14

Yeah, I had not considered that like the sexual turn on being like kind of like love languages, like I'm going to show you love the way I feel love, but it doesn't register the same way. So like I'm going to turn you on the same way I get turned on, that's fantastic.

Artemisia: 17:34

This is Kate, what I was working with. This is what got me interested in sexual fantasies in the first place. Yeah, how's that? Because you know, I was a big old slut before I started sex work. I started off terrified of my sexual fantasies because I didn't understand why on earth I would be turned on by things that I would never want to do in real life. And you know, then if I'm afraid of something I go poke it with a stick. So then I go go try everything on right and see, find out why is? Why is sex like this? Why are we turned on? I don't understand. It ended up being a lifelong journey of trying to work out why it's real like we are. But it wasn't until sex work itself that I really it really landed that every single person who was coming through my adverts or when I very fast started I was doing vanilla Brothel, worked for just a short period of time, and then I spent most of my career working privately and independently. But everyone who was coming in had a different turn on. They had a different story running in the background of the moment and they did not know that that was fantasy. They did not realize. They thought the way that I like. It is just how sex is. But when you're seeing, like you know, in a brothel, it's it's you know, get them in, get them off, get them out. It's it's factory line. When you get to seeing that many people coming through and they're each, each one of them, is desperate for you to mind read what they want and each one of them is different and to magically be into exactly what they're into so that they can feel safe, to be vulnerable. And this is when I realized that actually all of my casual sex and earlier sex had also had elements of that. It had just been less obvious and I hadn't been aware of it. But actually people were all unable to communicate what they wanted to. In fact, they were in a psychological double bind. They couldn't even acknowledge that their unique way of being turned on, their fantasy, was uniquely theirs, because they desperately needed the other person to be magically turned on exactly the same way in order to feel safe. So they couldn't get the situation where, in a brothel situation, they wouldn't pick you unless you had magically figured out in the two minutes you had to talk to them what their particular turn on was. Did they want romantic connection? Did they want to feel really socially connected with you? Did they need rapport in order to feel safe? Did they need to actually feel as though you didn't want to do the talking? You wanted to get primal and you wanted to get dirty. Maybe it was taboo, or maybe it was actually. They wanted to go into a trance like state, just from the senses, with no talking and no fantasy either. They just wanted to sink down into you know beautiful sensation. You had two minutes to work this out and then just magically present yourself as the person who also wanted to do that.

Ellecia: 21:18

How do you figure that out? Great, you have a hard time in hours Without a lot of talking.

Artemisia: 21:28

Well, in my, in my upcoming book, the Spirituality of Smut, I will actually go into exactly how I did that Amazing. I love that title Got some, got some ring, doesn't it? Yeah, something. But I did figure out that there's a much better way of doing this, and so I ended up working privately and setting up my own space in Sydney, with multi-roomed themed rooms, a sensual room and erotic massage room, a fully equipped dungeon. And my space got dubbed by my clients. They called it the Divinary because they felt when they came to you know, when working name was Mistress Artemisia Divine, which I've kept for my author name as well. So they came and they felt as though they were divining, like, you know, water divining. They came, they were divining the erotic, when they came to explore themselves in the Divinary and I set up a whole new way of doing things in order to. I was like I understood OK, sexual fantasies are key. I've got to find a way that makes it safe for them to be able to admit that their turn-ons are uniquely theirs, not the same as mine, and for us to be able to work out what the underlying narrative in this, in their sexual fantasies, their turn-ons, are, so that I can bring that to life in place, so that it can help them. So I set up this whole little tea ceremony. They'd sit on my red velvet couch, we'd drink out of little Moroccan tea glasses, the lighting's all down, the music's all down-regulated and nice and moody. And I convinced them which is, you know, pretty good going in the Anoddian industry to talk for half an hour before we actually played, right, and included that in the package that I now offered. Because you know most people don't want to talk. They're terrified that talking about it's going to kill the magic. They certainly don't want to analyze their turn-ons before they play, because that feels like going into their head rather than going into flow space with your body and just letting go and surrendering, right. So I turned that into an art form too, so that I could convince them to talk and keep them in the mood while we were doing that. But the key is sexual fantasies. The key is getting them talking about their sexual fantasies, and at first I was just thumbling along trying to work it out. But as I got into really trusting and listening to their sexual fantasies, at first I made all sorts of mistakes. I tried to live out what was in their mind's eye and try and just live it out, and that is very miss. You can't actually compete with the perfection of their own psyche. It's not possible, right, and it doesn't quite. Living it out literally is actually a misunderstanding of what sexual fantasies are, which people get to them in a second. But I soon worked out if I could get them talking about their sexual fantasies and I stopped thinking about them in terms of therapy, like Jack Moran has got all of these. It is the book that most sexologists will turn to to understand, and it's all based on unfinished childhood business and adolescent business. Instead of thinking about it through that lens, I looked at it through the lens of Well, my anthropology lens, but also my story geek lens. Sexual fantasies are stories. What is the narrative structure in the story? What is this function of this narrative actually achieving? Where is it taking them? How can I unpack that underlying narrative and bring that to life in an embodied experience of play? And as soon as I started doing that, oh my goodness, oh my goodness, the things that would happen. It was like, oh, oh, I get it now. Sexual fantasies are the stories about our natural, normal ego, fear of vulnerability, and they are also the exact story that knows how to resolve that fear so that you can let your guards down and open into this variety of incredible oratic states of consciousness, like I get it now and my clients were experiencing it. They were like at the end of a session. I just met them two hours ago. In the session they were like I never felt this way in my life. I did not know it was possible to feel this way and yet it just feels like who I always was and I just had forgotten somehow this is who I really am. What even is? This feels like drugs, except not drugs, because it feels the most real ever. Like I feel euphoric, I feel completely open, I feel and they were unguarded and just able to completely surrender into these open experiences. And they were like, wow, you trust someone's sexual fantasy If you trust their mind. It's there for a reason. It's not necessarily a wound at all. It's a map showing you how to change from one state of consciousness to another.

Ellecia: 27:17

That's amazing. Like, like, as Suniji said, that it like clicked and I was like, oh, so, like, all of those fantasies about being like, controlled or dominated, oh, if I let go of control then I can be vulnerable and receive all this pleasure. But what does that say about my tentacle fantasies? Oh, I love it. I love it, juicy. I always tell my clients I'm like, like, like you, having a fantasy doesn't mean that's necessarily the thing you want to do. Like, I have tentacle fantasies, but I'm not going to fuck an octopus. Like, that's not something I desire. Yeah, there's something going on there.

Artemisia: 28:03

Wow, there's, there's a thing right. So we notice there's genres of genres of yeah, sexual fantasies, like lots of people will be into tentacle fantasies, lots of people will be into cross dressing. Lots of people will be into being dominated, lots of people will be into threesome. So you can see really clear patterns. And yet you have to take the time to listen to each person, because each person has a unique version of that. So it's like going to the movies and you say which genre of movie are we going to watch? Are we going to watch chick flick, chick flick? So are we going to watch action movies? Are we going to watch fantasy, sci-fi, what are we? The genre is there and each genre it is a romantic story because it includes this point and this point and this point, and if it doesn't include that, it's not a romance. It has to include those things. And yet you can tell a billion stories that are romance. It's like you don't have there's no end to how many stories that you could tell, as long as it hits those particular points to make it a romance. And you know, you know, an action film is different as well, because it hits different points. This is how stories work. A writer is. We're all born, actually inherent storytellers. It's how humans are wired. We think in stories. We've passed down knowledge in stories for millennia. We this is. We heal with stories. We process our grief with stories. We connect and become intimate with stories. We are really hardwired for them. And yet you still, if you want to be a writer, you still have to study how stories work. You have to go OK, what's the underlying thing that's going to actually take somebody on a journey and master storytellers that create movies for us. These days, we go and watch a movie and it'll change us the whole way through. We just think we're going for entertainment, but we will cry with them, with the characters, will fall in love with the main characters, will grieve with them, will get goose bumps will squeal. Our opinions will change. There'll be a theme in the movie that's running, undercurrent, not obvious. Where we're in, all of the characters in the story will be having a different relationship with that same theme and we are unconsciously trying on different relationships to that same theme just by watching the story. So, thinking about an example of the Spider-Man you know Spidey, with great power comes great responsibility is the theme all the way through, even though we're not thinking about that on the surface, we're just going the baddies being a jerk. What are you going to do?

Ellecia: 30:48

Rescue the girls.

Artemisia: 30:53

But all of the characters are grappling with that same thing, including the villains. They're being great power with no responsibility. And you know, the uncle and the aunt are lots of responsibility and not very much power. And all of this, the theme just keeps coming through the whole way through and we've unconsciously changed and learned and transformed by going through it. Same things happens with sexual fantasy. Same thing happens when, when you start looking at sexual fantasies as an art form, it's going OK, I'm going to look at this on the level that a writer would a story. I'm going to be able to understand the, pick apart the different parts of it and then bring that to life in play. So now I've got the parts that this. Now I've got the fantasy. Now I've also got the somatic sensations, because we brought it to life in play, and the partner engagement as well. Now I've got the trifecta yeah. Juicy powerful, but the biggest thing coming back full circle. I always say I'm really geek out about this, I get carried away.

Ellecia: 32:02

Right.

Artemisia: 32:05

So the biggest thing to notice is that every single story has obstacles. They're never just we started, started with the status quo, everything stayed nice and we ended with this with sweetness. There is always change and change always leaves the comfort zone and there has to be things to overcome. There has to be misunderstandings to overcome, there has to be obstacles of people wanting different things. There has to be, sometimes you know, enemies to and or nemesis to overcome, or a situation to overcome, but there's always leaving the comfort zone and going through an obstacle course of obstacles and then reaching a climax of the story and then coming to a new normal and new, coming back into your comfort zone from a new place, and then you open your for your for it place. Sexual fantasies are overcoming obstacles to their stories that overcome your own fear of vulnerability and they're very specifically your egos idea of what would happen if you were vulnerable. Right, okay.

Ellecia: 33:29

Tell me more about that.

Artemisia: 33:32

So think about your. Ego is just an organ of the psyche, just using it as a that has a very specific role. It gives you a sense of self. You don't even have a sense of self without an ego and it defends that sense of self very rigidly. We think our egos. We wouldn't even remember to lock the car doors if we didn't have an ego, because we wouldn't have a sense of self to protect, right, like it's a very important part of ourselves. But if you want to connect with somebody, you need to let that defense down. You need to temporarily move from I to we. You need to lose yourself in the flow of the dance. You know you need to let go. So the ego resists this. The ego says how can I protect you if you are, if I'm not there to defend you? What might happen if you're vulnerable? Somebody might use you, somebody might take advantage of you, somebody might laugh at you, somebody might humiliate you, somebody might abuse their power over you. I need to stay here and protect you. Your social status might be lost if I'm not here to protect you, you might lose your dignity. You might lose face. You know the social tribe, might you know? You can't behave like that. You need to keep yourself a sense of self protected. That's its job, you know it's doing a healthy job, just defending that right. But there's part of you that comes from your subconscious let's just call it desire sends these lovely fantasy messages to seduce ego into letting the guards down. It's like, oh, you're afraid, you're afraid of somebody using you. If you're going to be vulnerable, I know, let's make using you a turn on. That'll make it safe. Let's conclude both the thing you fear and resolve it for you, so that that guard will stand down and you can now temporarily open and move from I to we. And sometimes, if you go really deep and you answer all three guards because it's through, then it feels like you've actually not just merged with somebody else. You feel connected with something much bigger than yourself. You feel connected to all. That is yeah, yeah.

Ellecia: 36:10

Oh, the tantra told through sexual fantasy. I love this.

Artemisia: 36:15

Holy shit that's amazing, the funnest game ever, and we get to just play. It was such a weird thing to do because I would be doing all of these. Really what seems on the surface like things that are, you know, especially as a dominatrix, seems on the surface to be unloving things, but actually what I was doing was that we were playing the theater of their mind. We're bringing their theater to life, in play, in the safe container of consensual play, and I was becoming this. I was becoming the story for them, and if they needed me to be the villain, I would be the villain. If they needed me to be the hero, I'd be the hero. You know, if they needed me to be the goddess, I'd be the goddess, and they could, and what that would allow them to do is to move through and process each of their ego's fears. And I also also include the antidote, because lots of people make the mistake of only including the fear when they try and live out fantasies and they don't include. They include the poison, but without the antidote, and that just hurts, so that just hurts Musting. If you want this alchemical process to work, transformation actually has to happen. You have to include the poison and the antidote, and then the end result is the exact opposite than what your ego feared it would be. It's really really powerful thing to do.

Ellecia: 37:45

How do you know what the antidote is?

Artemisia: 37:48

That's the art form, right? So this is what I teach people. Now this is my. I'm teaching all the experts how to how to work this out so they can help their clients and create experiences for their clients or support their clients and their own confusion around sexual fantasies and also sexplorers. I'm teaching people, but it is an art form. Just like you go and you don't do one weekend workshop to become a writer, you go and learn how to write stories. So, this is right. Then you practice Fun practice. This is, though. So this is. This is now teach the divinery method. Thanks to my clients to coming up with that name.

Ellecia: 38:36

This is like I'm. I'm enraptured here. So everything you just described with the ego and the fears, and it's literally like you're talking about it at the sexual fantasy. But this is the thing I work with my clients on in non-monogamy, opening relationships, becoming vulnerable, becoming their authentic self so that they can make the connections that they want to make Like it's. It's all so intertwined, isn't?

Artemisia: 39:03

it though. Yeah, once you say it, you can't unsee it. It's everywhere, yeah.

Ellecia: 39:08

Yeah, how, how? Okay, I'm curious. I have so many questions. How do you navigate the balance between between what the fantasy is and maintaining, like you know, healthy consensual reality, boundaries, agreements, all of that?

Artemisia: 39:37

Mm. Hmm, this is definitely part of what we have to work through in the. In the training that I do is working out what is fantasy and what is reality, and it's steeper than we think initially, because we've been running that story in the background of our mind and thinking that it was reality for a long time. Yeah, you know, those clients really did think that their sex workers were magically into exactly this.

Ellecia: 40:04

But we hurt.

Artemisia: 40:06

But actually we love that, but actually we are doing that constantly all the time to each other, right, and if you're the kind of person who, especially in situations that are in the traditional monogamous framework, where and they stick with the gender roles, where the man is supposed to lead in the heterosexual circumstance, like, and he and he's supposed to mind read, he's not supposed to be coy. Even if she's, even if she's a modern woman, she still doesn't have to talk or take the vulnerability to actually explain what she wants other than you know, rob, harder, slower, softer, faster. That's about as far as the guidance gets. Well, let's try this toy baby, that's. That's not deep enough to actually understand each other's particular wiring, right, and he will, bless his heart, do his absolute best to please it. And I really believe that the heartbreaking stories that I heard on the Red Velvet catch in the divinery of of the men who just could not, for the life of them, work out how to please their wives, because she wouldn't talk about it and he didn't have the tools to ask, and so he would just try and give her what he thought felt good. Yeah he'd just do that and I was like that too. I didn't realize in my casual sex I was out there being proactive. I get a new person each Saturday night for a few years. There I go out by myself on purpose so that the girlfriends wouldn't get, wouldn't you know? Pussy block me and I just go dancing and listening to live music and and I'd use body language and electricity to find somebody that I wanted to seduce for the night. But I'd play the role of prey rather than predator and I draw them in that way and even though I was being kind of a predator, I still wanted them to chase me and then, when it came time to the sex, I would just let them lead thinking, you know, because one of the things that that we do in a, when we're doing at least heterosexual sex which is not my only way of doing sex, by the way, but at least what we're doing heterosexual sex is to play this role of holding back the tsunami of erections that were coming at me and feeling as though my job was just to hold them back. Hold them back, open the gate to the one that I was going to let in, and he should feel privileged that I let him in now he can do his work, and what do I? I don't have to do any more work, that's it. That's how I used to do it, right? And and then I was wondering why they couldn't mind read what I was, what I was excited by. I was wondering why I wasn't feeling as fulfilled and I just thought, oh, that's just, we're just not compatible, that's all. We're not compatible. But actually I didn't realize that nobody's unique erotic wiring is the same. Nobody's, because every single one of us has to have a personalized story to overcome our specific ego. Right?

Ellecia: 43:24

Our specific ego. Yeah.

Artemisia: 43:26

So once we realize that it's much less threatening when somebody else is not turned on by the same things, right, it's like it's not that I'm not good enough, it's not that I'm not hot enough, it's that they're trying to run a story that is helping their ego, the story that they need to hear their poison and their antidote, which is different to my poison and my antidote. Oh, wow, how can we take turns, actually creating experiences, date nights where we go, let's play with yours tonight. Let's bring your psyche to life in a game. Let's go into flow state with this, and when you turn it into play, it works Like if you're going into an out of obligation. I have to think of their turn on. Something is hurry up. Is it my turn? Next to it? It doesn't work. And you're still relying on them being turned on by the same things you are in order to feel safe. But as soon as you both go into play the flow of play together, your nervous systems sink and respond in safety in the same way that they would if they were turned on by your turn on.

Ellecia: 44:34

Yeah, yeah. Right now I can be curious about you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so good, I want your book now.

Artemisia: 44:49

Well, there's something you can do now that you can go to my website Actually, I've got it set up and also you can easily remember which is my fantasy, iscom and there's a free 45 minute audio of me walking through this theory some more, but in a way that has an exercise, so that you can feel it somatically yourself and go. It's not a rottick, like you can actually do it with your clothes on in the train, it's okay or out in the park jogging, but it gets you to go through the process of it so you can feel all. That's how the story works. I get it now. I can feel it moving me from here to here, to here. Oh, there it is, so you can start to feel the things to look for. If you'd like to have a look at that one, what is the website again? MyFantasyIscom. It's also on the front page of ArtimijaDivinecom.

Ellecia: 45:42

Wonderful, I'll put them in the show notes for sure. Yeah, that is so freaking good. I wonder okay, I love that you have that because, okay, I got so many questions, but I want to ask you this. So I have often had, especially in dating, like people will say like, oh, what are your fantasies and what are your, you know? Like kind of like, what's your sexual bucket list? Kind of, in that way, Like what do you want to do? That you haven't done, and I'm like, fuck man, I've done everything I want to do. Like that I actually want to do. My fantasies that are left are not things I want to do in reality. Mm-hmm.

Artemisia: 46:25

Yeah.

Ellecia: 46:26

And that's often what I get is like what do you want to do? Well, I don't know Things that feel good. How do you differentiate what is your desire and what is your fantasy?

Artemisia: 46:37

Yeah, that is so important because when you approach it that way which is, you know, most people who came to me who'd been playing for 30 years in the BDSM scene came to see me as a pro-dom. They would approach it that way because that's what they were taught to do. These are my bucket list. These are the things I'm okay with doing. These ones I don't want to do, these ones are maybe, you know, I'm more or less trying to feel this, you know, and this is more or less the kind of fantasies that I have. So they've got some self-awareness that the vanilla people didn't necessarily have. But that formula did not get them where they needed to go. No, it did not. So it really was an art form and I can't teach you in this short amount of time, but it really is an art form to be able to have the right kind of conversation beforehand that draws out all of the information. So it's not just a here's the activity list, and to me that is there is another way to get all of that information and all of the consent and all of the clarity around who it's actually for, without it actually killing the turn on and killing the mood, and part of that comes from my pre-play talk, but part of it also comes from my pillow talk technique afterwards. So, and each time we use the pillow talk technique, we discover more about ourselves that we didn't even have words for consciously at all before and we can. It shows us exactly the next little step of what to explore so that you can go deeper into your own path, your own journey into arousal. So it's and it's a way that you can actually ask for exactly what you want, really truthfully, without being critical in any way, that not setting off that criticism, you didn't do it right button and they get bite sized enough that it's something that they can really hear and act on and know exactly how to help you and explore deeply that next part, all as part of the seduction. I teach people how to do this all the time and they use it with someone they've just had a one night stand with and they might want to have a second night stand with and they have no idea about my theory. They have no idea, but they use the pillow talk technique and it just feels so smooth and so part of the natural afterglow and segue so easily into the next invitation for the next thing that they don't even realize that they've been analyzing their sexual fantasies. Yeah, it's just. I think that's really important and that was a really important thing that I had to do as a sex worker, because they do not want to be analyzing things.

Ellecia: 49:22

Yeah, so the pillow talk technique is this like a like a, like a debrief, like a what went right, what went wrong.

Artemisia: 49:30

Yeah, but but it's. It's a very specific way of doing it, focusing and on the very first thing that people learn with me is the desire compass. They learn how to actually create a new relationship with desire itself and feel that on a somatic level it's like really deep, deep rewiring of that, because we don't, even even the wildest and most open minded of us, don't have a trusting relationship with this part of ourselves that, you know, tells us to spend all of our tax money on hats. For goodness sake.

Ellecia: 50:01

Like, but it's what I want.

Artemisia: 50:06

So rewiring the relationship. That and the pillow talk technique takes understanding the desire compass.

Ellecia: 50:13

That's why I'm not explaining it to you, you know, because it would just be too much, right? It's a whole process.

Artemisia: 50:18

Yeah, it's a whole process, but it's possible. It's absolutely possible, yeah.

Ellecia: 50:23

I love it. I love it so much I am. I am so curious about everything. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you want to share with the listeners?

Artemisia: 50:38

I don't know. You did a pretty good job. You're great.

Ellecia: 50:40

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Artemisia: 50:47

I guess if people want to find out about, if they want to, if they want lots of free tips, get on my mailing list. Because you know, anything to do with sex work even though I'm not a sex worker anymore gets routinely kicked off all social media. So my social media accounts exist but they're unreliable and I don't put a lot of effort into them. If you want to keep in contact and know when my book is coming out and get you know, get there on the red carpet with the. You know the spirituality of smut, be on my mailing list and I give away lots of tips in my mailing list to make it worth your while. And you know I just can't help myself. Anyway, you can hear me geeking out. I'll just tell you all of the stuff I'm excited about at the time If you are interested in working with me. There are this there's different offerings that you'll find out through the mailing list, but the, the divinery method, six months you know that's an erotic mastery, training in sexual fantasies. You're absolutely welcome to contact me around that as well. But start with the freebie. Go to the. Go to that website and get my fantasy is dot com and go through the exercise and feel for yourself how it works, then the very first step would be to book a discounted rate. Because you're listening to this sexual fantasy reading, which is 45 minute, private zoom with me, and you tell me you're recurring fantasy and I will help you uncover some of the most dominant themes that are working there, some useful things for you to be able to bring into your life straight away. So there's that as well. That's it, that's amazing.

Ellecia: 52:30

Oh, I love that. What a great, great offer. I love this. This is so good. Okay, I have one more thing to ask you, and this is not for the main podcast, it's for our Patreon supporters at patreoncom slash, not monogamous. And that question is what is a like a favorite sex tip that you would give people? Oh, I love this, I love this so much. Oh, my gosh. Okay, I'm going to be geeking out on this for a while. I appreciate you so much. I'm so happy you came on. Thank you, oh, thank you so much. That was Artemisia Divine and her just the tip. If you missed that little bit, you are going to want to go join our Patreon at patreoncom slash, not monogamous, so you can hear the juicy tidbits she just gave. Bye.